How do you feel about Common Core education?

by nonjwspouse 107 Replies latest social current

  • nonjwspouse

    Berengaria, the states curriculum MUST impliment 85% ( I remembered the number this time) of the Common Core standards. The remaining is up to the state. How is a measly limit of 15% state control NOT equating to massive federal control?

    Lets take a look now at the 45 states who signed on to CCSS without even really knowiong what it was really about, but now are finding out. They are learning....

  • nonjwspouse

    Mrhhome, thank you for your recognition. It has been a rather lonely battle for a while! But I don't give up when it my family is highly effected, just like I don't give up on somehow derailing my husband's idea of wanting to be baptised a JW, knowing the massive negative effect it can cause within our family regardless of what happens if he decided to go ahead and get baptised in the WTBTS. I keep learning, keep planting seeds, keep going about it all different angles. learn learn learn. It is the best and most important thing in life we can ever do.

    I also have a third grader. My honors graduated mechanical engineering degreed older daughter, with a high ranking job in a nucluear plant, gets frustrated at her little sister's math homework! same for my aeronautical engineering student son. Especially the rounding/estimating answers. Some are so wrong. yet my youngest knows how to get the right answer but is told hshe isn't allowed to do it that way by the teachers. She is being taught to be lazy. And also taught to take a very long way around a simple multiplication problem. We study and study those multimplication tables at home, but that isn't part of what the teacher assigns. I have recognised the lack of basic foundation, just like when I was taught " new math"so many years ago and it hindered my abilities for a lifetime. I had to go through four semesters of remedial (no more "new math" by then) math in college decades later before I finally understood enough of the basics that I could pass the calculus cources.

    I look at her homework and think. " Can you imagine rounding your electric bill to pay it? HA! " How fast will that come back to bite you when you use lazy math?

    My engineering daughter is gifted in her math abilities, yet she is flabbergasted at her sisters math papers.

    This is a serious problem and it is not just with the math, math is the beginning. ELA is also suffering.

  • BizzyBee

    Berengaria, the states curriculum MUST impliment 85% ( I remembered the number this time) of the Common Core standards. The remaining is up to the state. How is a measly limit of 15% state control NOT equating to massive federal control?

    Lets take a look now at the 45 states who signed on to CCSS without even really knowiong what it was really about, but now are finding out. They are learning....

    Truly sorry, but I can barely make out the sense of what you are attempting to say? The spelling, grammar, syntax, etc. is nearly impossible to suss out. Do you have a translator? Gibberish to English, perhaps?

  • nonjwspouse

    If you have trouble understanding, then you need to be skipping the posting. Once again, a personal attack shows your complete lack of arguement. Maybe this issue hits you in a sensitive area? If so then it is even more important that you do extensive research yourself on the very real problems with CCSS. It's suprising to me at how many people I have come across that research only CCSS "approved" materials, basically only those writings or reports that agree. That comes dangerously close to being the same as telling someone to go to only or the approved sites to resesrch the history and current facts about the WTBTS.

    This is another piece that exlains some of the problems with the ELA areas and testing issues.

    and a WP article with several good links. ( Rethinking schools )

    Please also consider this quote attributed to Albert Einstein:
    "“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

  • Oubliette

    nonjwspouse: It's suprising to me at how many people I have come across that research only CCSS "approved" materials, basically only those writings or reports that agree. That comes dangerously close to being the same as telling someone to go to only or the approved sites to resesrch the history and current facts about the WTBTS.

    Well that's just silly. You keep saying that there is something wrong with the CCSS. I have repeately asked if you've read them! I have copied verbatim quotes from those standards asking you what you find objectionable about them. So far you have yet to address any of those direct, simple questions.

    I agree that there are serious issues with education in America today, but I dispute your assertion that they are because of the CCSS.

    The politicization of education is a big part of the problem, but that's not going away anytime soon. That would take a sweeping reforrm of American politics. Don't hold your breath.

    The single biggest "eduational" problem in the US is really a socio-economic problem. Generally speaking, children living in poverty simply do not have the same chances as those living in affluent areas. Even middle class kids have a better chance at living the dream than do those in poverty.

    Educational reform that attempts to solve this problem through educational "standards" and testing will never be successful. It's like taking your dog to the vet because your car won't start.

    Your comparison to the WTBTS is not analogous. It's easy to find fault with the WT's teachings using ONLY their literature.

    “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

    Although I understand the point of this quote, I have to disagree with old Albert on this. Clearly everyone is NOT a genius, even allowing for Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence.

    That being said, the really valuable ideas behind the CCSS is that teachers can be more flexible and give students tools to develop whatever innate abilities and talents they have. I really appreciate how the CCSS give me MORE latitude in the classroom regarding my teaching methods.

  • Oubliette

    I just read the article that njs posted:

    The Common Core’s fundamental trouble, by VALERIE STRAUSS

    I really appreciated this quote:

    • We also know that many creative, heroic teachers are seeking ways to use this latest reform wave to serve their students well. Especially in the current interim between the roll-out of the standards and the arrival of the tests, some teachers have embraced the Common Core as an alternative to the scripted commercial formulas of recent experience, and are trying to use the space opened up by the Common Core transition to do positive things in their classrooms.

    Amen to that!

  • Oubliette

    Several posters on this thread have repeatedly asserted that CCSS will somehow lower the standards which children are expected to meet. Yet in a Washington Post article referenced by nonjwspouse, the critics say this:

    • By all accounts, the new Common Core tests will be considerably harder than current state assessments, leading to sharp drops in scores and proficiency rates.

    The fact is, the CCSS are significantly different than the previous standards in most states. As a broad generalization, previous standards tended to state what students should know, now they are about what students should be able to do.

    As a classroom teacher I say this is a very good thing!

    Referring to the previous No Child Left Behind (NCLB) policy which CCSS is to replace, Strauss, in that same article, makes this excellent point, " NCLB was a dismal failure in both raising academic performance and narrowing gaps in opportunity and outcomes. "

    Pointing out the results of the wrong-headed approach of "test and punish," Strauss continues, " NCLB did succeed in creating a narrative of failure that shaped a decade of attempts to “fix” schools while blaming those who work in them."

    Addressing the real issue of socio-economic inequality, Strauss explains, " In reality, NCLB’s test scores reflected the inequality that exists all around our schools. The disaggregated scores put the spotlight on longstanding gaps in outcomes and opportunity among student subgroups. But NCLB used these gaps to label schools as failures without providing the resources or support needed to eliminate them. "

    Drawing the distinction between the things of value in the CCSS and the problems in implementation, Strauss continues, " reasonable people, including many thoughtful educators we respect, have found things of value in the Common Core standards."

    Finally, pointing the spotlight on the real issues that should be addressed concerning implementation, Stauss concludes, " Common Core has become part of the corporate reform project now stalking our schools. Unless we dismantle and defeat this larger effort, Common Core implementation will become another stage in the demise of public education. As schools struggle with these new mandates, we should defend our students, our schools, our communities, and ourselves by telling the truth about the Common Core. This means pushing back against implementation timelines and plans that set schools up to fail, resisting the stakes and priority attached to the tests, and exposing the truth about the commercial and political interests shaping and benefiting from this false panacea for the problems our schools face." - [Emphasis added]

    Her final comments are particularly insightful, saying, "We see consultants and corporate entrepreneurs where there should be parents and teachers, and more high-stakes testing where there should be none."

    I completely agree with the problem of businesses leading the edge of educational reform, but they do need to be involved for several reasons. The obvious one is that they are the ones that create the textbooks and teaching materials that we use in our classroom.

    However, I have to disagree with Strauss's assertion that "We see consultants and corporate entrepreneurs where there should be parents and teachers." Instead I would revise that to read, "We see consultants and corporate entrepreneurs alone where there should also be parents and teachers." That being said, and as I have stated before, the majority of the textbooks that I have seen were written and produced by highly qualified educators.

    Also, although parents are of course huge stakeholders in this debate, the fact is the vast majority of parents are completely unqualified to participate in this process. Nevertheless, their voices need to be heard, not in respect to creating standards or curriculum, but to offer feedback on the results and the process.

    Again, the biggest problems facing education today are not caused by teachers in general, and particular set of standards or curriculum. They are socio-economic inequalities in our society. These cannot be solved by changing teaching standards and testing kids. It's as simple as that.

  • Oubliette

    LisaRose: Oubliette, your comments were very informative, but I think you went overboard on the sarcasm. Disparaging remarks rarely contribute to a rational debate.

    Your are right. I do apologize. Thank you for pointing that out!

    mrhhome: First, I would like to thank Oubliette for her post / response.

    You are welcome. BTW, I am a HIM not a HER.

    mrhhome: Normally, I try very hard not to get personal. Forgive me if I do on this subject. You are pushing something that is directly impacting my family. You are dismissing any concerns with the "we know best" / "we are smarter than you" / "your are a fool" response.

    I appreciate your personal concern as a parent. You have every right to be involved with and concerned about your child's education. I can understand why you took my previous remarks the way you did. My sarcasm was inappropriate and over-the-top. However, if you re-read my comments you will find that I never implied that "we are smarter than you" or that "your are (sic) a fool." I was trying to point out that your own statements revealed that you didn't really know about the finer points of the issues which you were complaining about.

    mrhome: I have seen things that give me reason for concern, and you have not adequately addressed my concerns. Until YOU do, did you say it Obliette (sic) ..."refrain from further comments!"

    Again, you should be concerned. Just be concerned about the right things. I see from subsequent posts you had added some details. However, the problems you discuss seem to stem from issues with a particular teacher rather than CCSS per se.

    You refer to issues with tests but you didn't say who created them. Was it the teacher? A publisher? Who? Please clarify.

    I can't address your concerns when they are vague and not specific.

    mrhhome: BTW, did you say which grade you teach?

    I didn't. At one time or another I have taught every grade K-12 in public schools in the state I live. I presently teach at the secondary level.

  • Oubliette

    nonjwspouse: Marc wrote this, his proposed direction for American education in 1992. I know what my opinion is on this line of thought. He describes current CCSS in these points. After reading his letter what is yours?

    The three items you copied and pasted are indeed worrisome. But I have to point out two things:

    1. These were written by the anonymous editor of The Eagle Forum, not by Marc Tucker. Presumably they are his synopsis of Tucker's proposal. No I did not read all 7 pages of Tucker's letter, nor do I because ...
    2. The issues that concern you, and they should, are indicative of serious social ills in our modern world. Did you not read my post on Data Mining?

    The collection, sorting and analyzing of the vast amounts of data collected is apparently the #1 hot new industry. Note that this is a ubiquitous aspect of life in the 21st Century and is completely independent of things like the Common Core.

    Every time we swipe our credit/debit card at the grocery market, every phone call we make, text message we send, every website we browse: someone is collecting that data.

    Welcome to the Brave New World!


  • nonjwspouse

    Arne Duncan to White Suburban Moms. Have you heard his recent statement? How do you feell about it? Personally, with three highly educated adult kids, two in the process of post grad studies, and all highly productive, I take great offense at that. The arrogance of Arne is iinfuriating, but then it is not suprising. Remember where his ego and carrer path has been, or have you researched that?

    I have read the standards for CCSS but do you realise some of these standards are "advertized" but they have yet to even complete some of them in any type of assessment? They are not available to the teachers, because they aren't completed!

    Do you see how the Governors and DOA of the states were sold the bill of goods when the product was not completed. were inticed and wooed by very large grants and special interest groups? Look at the history and people behind those organizations. Follow it and see what you find. See if it bothers you as a conflict of interest?

    Annenburg, Airel Education Initiative, both Chicago based. Obama ( and Ayres) with Annenburg was a massive failure. Arne was head of the Airel education initiative and was chosen by Obama to become secretary of education.....

    Some interesting conctions here with this:

    Note: Sarah Duncan is Arne S. Duncan’s sister, and a board member of the Ariel Education Initiative. Ariel Education Initiative is a nonprofit affiliate of Ariel Investments, LLC. Ariel Investments, LLC was the host for the Barack Obama fund-raising roundtable, 7/2/2008, and a contributor for the 2013 Barack Obama inaugural committee. John W. Rogers Jr. is the chairman & CEO for Ariel Investments, LLC, a friend of Michelle Obama, and a member of the Commercial Club of Chicago. Michelle Obama is a friend of John W. Rogers Jr., and was a lawyer at Sidley Austin LLP. Barack Obama was an intern at Sidley Austin LLP. R. Eden Martin is counsel at Sidley Austin LLP, and the president of the Commercial Club of Chicago. Mellody L. Hobson is a member of the Commercial Club of Chicago, the president of Ariel Investments, LLC., and a trustee at the Sundance Institute. Foundation to Promote Open Society was a funder for the Sundance Institute. George Soros is the chairman for the Foundation to Promote Open Society, and the founder & chairman for the Open Society Foundations. Open Society Foundations was a funder for the Atlantic Council of the United States (think tank). Michael P.C. Carns was a director at the Atlantic Council of the United States (think tank), and is a director at the Freedom Group.

    I know some of you tend to ignore conflicts of interest. But I take it quite seriously.

    Anything negatively effecting my children's education I will take very seriously.

    Most of what you have seen SO FAR is not the equivelent of what you will be seeing yet to come. This is part of the problem. The testing is not even fully developed yet. Some of the math textbooks have flat out wrong answers in them. Is there a rush so that there are not enough qualified proofreaders? If so, why? Is this not critical for the teachers to trust the textbooks?

    I have replied numerous times with my own objections. I link to many different sources that back this up. You didn't read Marcs letter, you should. Take the time if you really do care to learn what he wrote. Those bullet points I posted are REAL, and they are the recipe for the CCSS. The real photocopy of the letter is right there on that same site, but you didn't read it? Why not if what preceeded it were" worrisome" to you?

    Data mining is ABSOLUTLY a serious concern.

    My posts about data mining in this thread have been focused on the planned mining that would follow the child in the school system from"cradle to grave". This was pointd out in Marc's letter as a positive objective.

    I understand it is a lot to research. I know I have been researching for many, many weeks and still just seem to be on the tip of the iceburg. I am thaknkful though to finally hear of others waking up. Other states waking up and questioning. Others taking the time to actually read such things, such as the full seven page letter, and see the true intent as it is written.

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