Great job DD! It's so sad the the R&F can't discuss this like we do here. If they do, the elders will come after them.
The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.
by THE GLADIATOR 443 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Fisherman
Splash,
I could be wrong. I do not know what the official teaching is and what the age gap between the 2 groups is. In all objectivity, the litterature that I have read is not specific about the age gap and allows for the second group to be around from beginning to the end of the sign. You seem to agree.
It is not logical to conclude that the "new light" is wrong before it proves to be wrong. No matter how many times the WT may have beem wrong in the past does not establish that they are wrong about the issue at hand.
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DATA-DOG
Fisherman said, " It is not logical to conclude that the "new light" is wrong before it proves to be wrong. No matter how many times the WT may have beem wrong in the past does not establish that they are wrong about the issue at hand."
I must disagree. No matter how logical a matter may seem,[ the FDS dogma does not conform to any reason or logic] if it is built on a false premise, then it is wrong. There is no need to wait and see. The WTBTS is wrong about the nu-light, because the nu-light is an " better understanding" of the old light which was incorrect to begin with. They have expounded on a teaching that was incorrect in the first place, so the nu-light cannot be anything but wrong, no matter how you look at it. That is the only logical conclusion. Getting a brainwashed dubbie to see the incorrect foundation is the challenge. All the logic in the world usually yields the standard, "Trust the channel" response, or ,"Wait on Jehovah."
Jesus said that the Kingdom of the Heavens belongs to child-like ones who accepted his simple teachings. The disciples had to be deprogrammed from the legalistic thinking of the Pharisees and reminded of how simple the truth really was. If they believed in Christ, then they were sons of the kingdom. Can you imagine Jesus teaching children something like the modern convoluted JW dogma? The fact that no Elder can really explain it, or will even attempt to, is very telling IMO.
DD
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Splash
Previously in this thread I posted:
Group 1: Born 1894. Anointed at 20 in 1914. Died at 80 in 1974
Group 2: Born 1954. Anointed at 20 in 1974. Dies at 80 in 2034But I see now I have to revise it to add an earlier line, also Group 1:
Group 1: Born 1834. Anointed at 20 in 1854. Died at 80 in 1914
Group 1: Born 1894. Anointed at 20 in 1914. Died at 80 in 1974
Group 2: Born 1954. Anointed at 20 in 1974. Dies at 80 in 2034This illustrates that the first group could be made up from people who were born anywhere between 1834-1894, who were anointed by 20 and lived for 80 years.
This means that 'this generation' extends from 1834 - 2034. A nice round 200 year old 'generation' which quite contradicts the w10 4/15 article which stated:
"we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long;"Splash.
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DATA-DOG
Spash said," This means that 'this generation' extends from 1834 - 2034. A nice round 200 year old 'generation' which quite contradicts the w10 4/15 article which stated:
"we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long;"This is why the next flash of nu-light could be that "this generation" evidently refers to the anointed members of the FDS/GB ONLY. Then the "generation" can begin with Rutherford and Co. as group #1. They were appointed over the domestics in 1919.
Generation:
1st group: Rutherford and all those "taking the lead" at world headquarters since 1919.
2nd group: Those at world headquarters who's lives overlap with the first group. They are now advancing in age.
DD
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Splash
If you overlap with Freddy Franz then there's still another 40 years to go.
Fred Franz. Born 1893. Baptized 1913. Died December 1992. This makes him Overlapper Group 1.
Someone could theoretically be born 1972, baptised/anointed 1992, thus overlapping FF and being in Overlapper Group 2.
Born 1972, live to be 80 and die in 2052 = end of 'this generation' is 2052, 220 years after the earliest overlapper generation were born.This 'not excessively long' generation can now realistically be 220 years long and counting!!
Splash
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TD
It is not logical to conclude that the "new light" is wrong before it proves to be wrong. No matter how many times the WT may have beem wrong in the past does not establish that they are wrong about the issue at hand.
I'm a big fan of logic, but just for fun, at what point does it actually enter into the discussion?
Although JW's don't use terms like, "Type" and "Antitype" much in their literature anymore, they are still using typology as the interpretational method vis-à-vis the Olivet. Typology requires a pattern between "Primary" or "Typical" fulfillments (Fulfillments relavant to the immediate audience) and "Secondary" or "Antitypical" fulfilments (Fulfillments relavant to a third-party audience, such as Christians reading the Olivet many centuries later.)
Logically, redefining the word, "Generation" to mean something other than what the immediate audience would have understood and experienced is a breach of typology and the fallacy of the "invisible interpreter." It deligitimizes the claim that there even is a secondary fulfillment at all.
A second way I think this happens is in ignoring the sentence structure:
αμην λεγω υμιν ου μη παρελθη....
Truly I say to you not not shall pass....
The intensive negative here (not not) is translated in the NWT for semantic content as, "By no means" Despite that, JW's for years have seemed to think it actually reads, "Not entirely" and that fulfillment is still valid even if it's only a technicality. (i.e If even a tiny fraction of a single demographic percentage point is still alive, then all is good even though that "generation" has mostly passed away by any objective standard.)
Again, that's a break in the pattern between primary and secondary fulfillment and not what the wording in their own translation suggests. Logically, the latest interpretational iteration is not wrong simply because they've been wrong in the past. If it's wrong, it's wrong because it's an illogical incoherent mess.
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Finkelstein
The over lapping generation proclamation is just a self imaginary concept by the WTS. leaders cause
they just are starting to realize themselves that nothing has happened toward what the organization said
was going to happen in the duration of many previous decades.
Questions have been posed toward the GB from inside the Org. as to why ? why nothing ?
There is no question that the END TIMES doctrine that the WTS. has been spouting off for almost a century
has been a huge commercial success, from a publishing distribution stand point.
But the Jig is up as they say, the clock has run out.
Its all going to be contrived bullshit from here on in and they will still use their power to thwart any member
who poses too much inquiry.
Support the product line or get out is the final ultimatum.
In reality the WTS. has now gone into a mode of creating bullshit to cover their past previous bullshit (1914) .
Was the WTS. ever chosen by God as its earthly mouth piece for all mankind ? Naaa... not unless you support the notion that God is a appealing bullshitter too.
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sd-7
The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth. Thus, not every anointed person today is included in “this generation” of whom Jesus spoke.
So, it looks like we actually have three groups here:
1. Anointed who saw 1914.
2. Anointed who got anointed before Group 1 died off.
3. Anointed who got anointed after Group 1 died off.
It sounds like they're planning ahead for when this one doesn't pan out, to shift three groups into one 'generation'.
So I see that I haven't missed anything in my time away from this site. Inmates still running the asylum.
--sd-7
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Finkelstein
I guess you can say the WTS. added bible Scripture of their own to support their end times doctrine and
legitimize "This generation" adding to the spoken words of Jesus Christ is sanctimoniously corrupt
but not surprising from this religious publishing house !
The day will come when all this extenuating bullshit will be useless and the WTS. will have to drop 1914 all together.
Surprised don't be, they will describe it once again as being "New Light"