The 1914 generation is still going strong 100 years later - 2014 study article.
by THE GLADIATOR 443 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Fisherman
Splash,
Don't mean to be authoritative here or apologetic, but the wt DOES NOT specify the AGE gap between the 2 groups. The WT meaning that you have quoted allows for the second group to have been around although too young to be annointed ( ages 0 to 20) in 1914. I think you are missing it or maybe I am wrong but it DOES NOT SAY that the second group that sees the GT DOES NOT SEE 1914. It says the the first group sees 1914 then dies.
These other young individuals (0 to 20) 1914 that were around in 1914 were contemporaries of the first group, and although they were around in 1914 but not annointed in 1914 and because not being anointed, could not be part of the first group. And did not make up part of the second group. Or any group. They did not qualify to be called 'this generation"
WHEN THEY BECAME ANNOINTED (that is the KEY) that is when they became interlappers, the second group and part of the generation definition. Remember that discerning the sign or just being a contemporary of ANY age does not qualify you as PART of "this generation". Since the term "this generation ONLY applies to the ANNOINTED, those young ones had to be annoined in some point of their life in the future and in the year that they became annointed, they became part of the "second group". Also, older ones of the same age group of the first grroup BECAME PART OF THE SECOND GROUP UPON BEING ANNOINTED. So, someone born in 1886 that became anointed in 1925 would be considered "second group". ND OLDER THAN SOME IN THE FIRST GROUP.
However, some of young ones that were around but NEVER became annointed, do not make up part of the second group, the same as olders ones that never becaome part of the first because they were not anointed in 1914. An the ages of these are not relevant because according to WT definition, do not make up "this generatiom"
Follow?
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Fisherman
Glad,
Of course i know what the WT taught in the past. They admited they were wrong. This discussion is about what they teach now.
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THE GLADIATOR
Pardon me Fisherman - I just had a strong desire to post a picture and my flesh was weak.
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Fisherman
So Glad I'm lol!
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Fisherman
Bob,
There is a lot of stuff to read in your links. Give me a chance to read. I will comment at the link location later on.
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DATA-DOG
Wow.. this is really a messed up religion. I like this thread. Let's figure this whole thing out. I am imagining how I would explain this to an audience. Can you imagine doing a power-point presentation or an old school blackboard lesson on this? How many dub's heads would explode?? Can you imagine this being covered at the Elder's School? I would like to have grasp of what the Great 8 are actually teaching. Splash, I am borrowing your outline, that you adapted from Pixel's astute observation.
Splash said: [ additions mine ]
So adapting Pixels comment from above, the anointed now have:
1. Anointed who are pre-'this generation' (eg Apostles). [ anyone like Newton, Tyndale aka Bible heroes and who knows who??] These lived and died before 1914.
2. Anointed of the First Group of 'this generation'. These witnessed 1914 while anointed. [ CTR , Rutherford and ALL Bible Students around the world. How many? Who knows? See the book ' What Pastor Russel Said ', for an estimate.]
3. Anointed of the Second Group of 'this generation'. These overlapped the First Group while anointed themselves. [ This group contains the sub-group called the FDS/GB starting with Rutherford and Co. and Ending with the present day GB/FDS who are advancing in years. Rutherford is the original overlapper as he is the link between the Age of the pre-generation anointed and the "generation." His life overlapped with CTR and Rutherford was the original gangsta' FDS.]
4. Anointed who are post-'this generation'. These were born after all of the First Group died. [ Where does Sanderson fit in? How can anyone prove when someone became anointed?]
All anointed in points 1. and 2. are now dead.
So all anointed on the earth today, including our FDS, consist of men from both point 3. and point 4. [ correct ]Let's add 2 more groups or sub-sets of JW believers:
1) The unknown amount of JWs who will die before the outbreak of the GT. They are NOT the GC of [other sheep] because the GC come out of the GT. So who are they? Let's call them the forsaken and nameless ones. [ Like the 85 year old Elder I knew who recently died. He was not a partaker and NOT of the GC. Who was he? ]
2) The Great Crowd. The undetermined number of baptized and faithful [ turning in time regularly] JWs, who survive the "rapidly approaching" Great Tribulation that culminates in the War of the Great Day of GOD the Almighty.
What a jacked up mess of dogma. Especially when the actual scriptural teaching of the "elect" is that they were chosen from the founding of the World, they were pre-determined. That means that all this "overlapping" of lives while being "anointed" is pure poppycock. The last known "Elect" could have died in the 4th century and another "Elect" may not have been born until last week! If 144,000 is literal, then when do they appear? How many are left? What if there are 5,000 left, or 500?!?! What if only one Elect is born every thousand years? Who knows?
If you want a theory that makes more sense, just say that the END will not come until the last of the anointed ones [ 144,000 being literal or figurative does not matter ] are about to be martyred or die of old age. In the meantime, just do your best to follow Christ Jesus. Stop DF'ing people who disagree with your convoluted and ever-changing dogma.
DD
Ps. I would love to see Raypublisher dressed up as a Professor in a lab coat, and explaining all this. That would be awesome!
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Splash
Hi Fisherman,
No problem in you or anyone asserting your view - I like to call it 'discussion'
If we're talking technicalities then you are correct - the WT does not allocate ages to the groups they refer to. They will never do this and they will never give start and end years for 'this generation'. They like to deal in generalities so they have lots of wriggle room later.
If we're talking about what they seem to be impressing on the flock(s), then the two groups must be distanced by age, otherwise it does not achieve their goal of covering over their last false prediction for 'this generation' while adding sufficient (but not too much) additional time for the coming of the GT.
If there isn't a large number of years between the two groups then either this new light is about to be proven wrong when all those from around 1914 die out, or the GT will be in the next 2 or 3 years, which the WT do not seem to be saying either.
For me, when I read their latest explanation, they are putting another 20 years on the meter.
Splash
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Splash
Hi DD,
Good additional info!
Can I propose you call your first sub group 'other sheep', but not a 'Great Crowd of other sheep'?
I'm thinking of John 10:16 "I have other sheep which are not of this fold". Jesus was speaking in the present tense (which raises other questions ).Splash