by EdenOne 154 Replies latest watchtower bible
whatever number rocks your boat
No we are talking about facts here Eden.
According to Genesis all the land animals were created on the same "day" as Adam and Eve.
If you want anbody to take your ideas seriously you have to allow the sixth day to be around 400 million years long.
An omniscient being has no need for "experiments", wouldn't be unable to foresee the threat of "Satan subverting that purpose", etc, and has no need for fall-back plans, making it up as He goes, playing it by ear, etc, or any of the other concepts that apply to non-omniscient beings, since God would already KNOW what was going to happen.
If God was entirely omniscient and prescient, he would have destroyed Satan before he could cause damage to his plans, don't you think? Because a God of love that was simultaneously omniscient and prescient would know beforehand that Satan's agenda would cause mankind to get in all sorts of trouble and suffering, causing also humans to stop believing in a God of love. What kind of God would bring reproach upon his own name?
Eden
Romans 5:12?
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--
Since sin is defined as any act that violates God's Will, and eating the fruit against God's orders is the very-first example cited as a sin, God is taking the blame for death of all humanity. It's the Bible's way of explaining why we grow old and die: accumulated damage due to the corrupting influence of sins.
It's also WHY people in the 1st Cent CE believed Jesus was able to cure disease and conquer death: he was given the power by God to forgive sins.
Adam
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Finkelstein >>> A loving and just god would have given her a second chance.
Perhaps god did: God's the first "Eve" was Lilith.
Since sin is defined as any act that violates God's Will
No, actually "sin" literally means "missing the target". It means becoming unfit to the purpose. I posite that the original sin, the sin that causes permanent death, is the absence of a spiritual bonding with God.
You quote Romans 5:12? That was a predicatable choice. Again, where can you honestly read in there that God caused Adam and Eve to die? You can only do so by resorting to a lot of extrapolation to lead to a conclusion based on theology that is incrusted within yourself.
The only thing we can tell for sure by the accounts of the miracles of Jesus is that forgiving sins leads to healing. Period. There is no epistemological need for sin to be the cause of death and ilness. That was the old Jewish superstition - see John 9:2, 3 and the rebuttal of Jesus.
Eden
Eden said- If God was entirely omniscient and prescient, he would have destroyed Satan before he could cause damage to his plans, don't you think?
A morally-upright one would, yes.
God cannot tap-dance His way out of the problem of evil: He cannot take credit for the good stuff while avoiding responsibility for the bad stuff.
Because a God of love that was simultaneously omniscient and prescient would know beforehand that Satan's agenda would cause mankind to get in all sorts of trouble and suffering, causing also humans to stop believing in a God of love. What kind of God would bring reproach upon his own name?
Hmmm, perhaps a God who was created by clever men, as a fictional character? You'd also start to wonder if maybe Jehovah wasn't just a fictional character in Hebraic religion, like Zeus was to the Greeks, Ahuru Mazda was to the Persians, and Apollo was to the Romans.
Time to put away the fairy tales, Eden: the real story of the history of what happened in history is infinitely more interesting than the tales taken as historical truths. You have the capability to learn and the intellect/brain power, so you've got no excuse to remain mired in the wish-driven siren-song of religious beliefs.
Adam
If you want anbody to take your ideas seriously you have to allow the sixth day to be around 400 million years long.
And why not?
Eden
This has got too daft for me.
Bye.
Eden said-
You quote Romans 5:12? That was a predicatable choice. Again, where can you honestly read in there that God caused Adam and Eve to die? You can only do so by resorting to a lot of extrapolation to lead to a conclusion based on theology that is incrusted within yourself.
Make no mistake: I KNOW sin doesn't cause death, as I actually went to a college where I earned a biology degree, and I don't need 2,500 yr old superstitions to explain why people die. I know the scientific explanation(s) as to why organisms die.
So when I argue from the theological position, I'm speaking as to what mainstream Christianity would say as to why we die, based on their common interpretation of the Bible. I'm an atheist, and have MANY reasons from the Bible to know why God is NOT an intelligent designer (unless ignorance of their own designs is a known hallmark of designers these days).
Adam
Eden said- If God was entirely omniscient and prescient, he would have destroyed Satan before he could cause damage to his plans, don't you think?
A morally-upright one would, yes.
Therefore, one must conclude that God is neither entirely omniscient nor entirely prescient, nor entirely all-powerful, nor entirely loving, although he surely posesses those qualities in a degree unmatched by any other being. Actually, to be all-powerful is, in abstract, an impossibility. Because let's say that God could create a stone so heavy that no one in the entire universe could lift. if he was all-powerful he could create such a stone. But if he did, then he wouldn't be able to lift that stone, which would render him not almighty. If that stone could not be lifted by anyone except by God, then it would be demonstrated that God couldn't create a stone that even him could not lift, and therefore, God wouldn't be all-powerful.
Eden
