by Comatose 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hi,
606 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction....has anyone ever thought about contacting a museum or another form of history of Jerusalem in Jerusalem. Wouldn't they be the authority on when & where the destruction took place.
Go to the source...Jerusalem...they should have an accurate account of their history, more than us Americans. Just as if someone wanted to know when the declaration of independence was signed, you wouldn't take the word of an expert in Jerusalem...I'm just saying.
Legacy
What's funny is that he came up with the whole incorrect date of 607 BCE after he was pressured to step back from his pyramid claim of how he really came up with 1914:
"So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year BC 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, BC 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years BC plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject..." ( Charles Taze Russell, Thy Kingdom Come, Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3, 1910 edition ).
The unknown or forgotten history was he was crazy about the occult and pyramids!!
Legacy - has anyone ever thought about contacting a museum or another form of history of Jerusalem in Jerusalem.
Hi Legacy, there has been a lot of research into this, and no university or encyclopedia says 607. They almost universally agree that the year was 536/7.
Comatose, as Annomaly wrote, 606 was worked out simply by subtracting 70 years from 536, which is based on a misinterpretation of the Scriptures.
"You cannot condemn it in one place and use it to support you in another."
Of course they can. This is the WT we're talking about here!
Welcome, Aroq.
The number 2,520 years is a number arrived at by using the 'special math-magic formula' of 7x360=2,520.
The number 7 comes from the book of Daniel chapter 4 regarding Nebuchadnezzar's 7 years of insanity. (As we know, Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon and Babylon came to be the WTBTS's symbol for all false religion. Revelation chapter 14 speaks of "Babylon the Great".)
The number 360 comes from the number of days in a 'lunar' or Jewish year. (Of course we don't live by the lunar calendar and the 'marked' year 1914 C.E. is a Gregorian calendar date.)
Here's where the 'special math-magic formula' comes into play. 7 (years) x 360 (days) equals 2,520. BUT--- since we live in the Gregorian calendar world, and this 'prophecy' is fulfilled according to the Gregorian calendar date of 1914 C.E.; 7 (years) x 365.25 (days) equals 2,556.75. A difference of almost 37 years. (Of course, by using 'math-magic' those 37 years become 'invisible' just like Christ's return was 'invisible'.)
Another part of this 'math magic formula' is assuming that 2 other Bible Scriptures, in Numbers and Ezekiel, that speak of a 'day for a year' is part of this mysterious formula. (WTBTS say that the 'day for a year' formula is a Biblical rule when meting out punishment.)
One would also have to assume also that Jehovah used the kingdom of Babylon (world empire of false religion) to forshadow/picture God's Kingdom. That somehow Nebuchadnezzar's 7 years of insanity forshadowed/pictured a period of inactivity for God's kingdom. With Jehovah (and a bit of 'math-magic') all things are possible.
Is this the kind of stuff Dan Brown used to write the Di Vinci Code?
Eyeuse2badub
jwfacts:
Hi Legacy, there has been a lot of research into this, and no university or encyclopedia says 607. They almost universally agree that the year was 536/7.
What encyclopedias have you been reading?! (Yes, it was almost certainly just a typo. )
Most sources say either 587 or 586, and that doubt is largely based on ambiguity within the Bible (though careful analysis of the Bible confirms 587). Because the Babylonian calendar (which the Jews adopted) started in Nisan (March/April) and ended partway into the following year, that single year can be validly expressed as 587/6, so using "587/6" is not always an expression of doubt about one of those two years.
Jerusalem definitely fell during 587. This can be determined exactly by comparing Jewish ('biblical') and Babylonian sources.
C.T. Russell got 606 from other sources prevalent at the time. Many dates had been suggested in the 19th century for the fall of Jerusalem, but 606 was the most common by Russell's time. JWs didn't change it to 607 until the 1940s.
See also Jehovahs Witnesses and 1914. I've also been working on 607 and the new NWT.
Picked this up on JWN a while back
Vander
Was Jerusalem destroyed in 607 BCE or 587 BCE?
"There are only 5 Babylonian kings to deal with. It isn't hard. You don't need to bother with VAT 4956, Josephus, Ptolemy, Anstey, Bullinger, etc. etc. Just go by the actual kings, whose names and regnal lengths are known from tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets from many different towns and villages all over southern Mesopotamia. It is so simple a child could do it. Starting with Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king, and working backward.
Babylon falls to Cyrus the Persia -- 539 BCE (Date accepted by WT CD ROM 2001)
Nabonidus -- 17 years (WT agrees) For long periods he entrusted rule to his son, Prince Belshazzar
Labashi-Marduk -- 3 months (WT says less than 9 months)
Neriglissar -- 4 years (WT in agreement)
Evil-Merodach -- 2 years (WT in agreement
Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years (In the 19th year of his reign he destroyed Jerusalem)
WT 1965 1/1 p. 29 The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage sonLabashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.
So let's count backwards using these kings reigns:
Nabonidus -- 17 years
17 = 539 BCE
16 = 540
15 = 541
14 = 542
13 = 543
12 = 544
11 = 545
10 = 546
9 = 547
8 = 548
7 = 549
6 = 550
5 = 551
4 = 552
3 = 553
2 = 554
1 = 555
0 = accession year = 556
Labashi-Marduk -- less than a year 3 months in 556
Neriglissar -- 4 years
4 = 556
3 = 557
2 = 558
1 = 559
0 = accession year = 560
Evil-Merodach -- 2 years
2 = 560
1 = 561
0 = accession year = 562
Nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years
43 = 562 BCE
42 = 563
41 = 564
40 = 565
39 = 566
38 = 567
37 = 568
36 = 569
35 = 570
34 = 571
33 = 572
32 = 573
31 = 574
30 = 575
29 = 576
28 = 577
27 = 578
26 = 579
25 = 580
24 = 581
23 = 582
22 = 583
21 = 584
20 = 585
19 = 586
18 = 587And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, which is the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, a servant of the king of Babylon, unto Jerusalem: And he burnt the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all the houses of Jerusalem, and every great man's house burnt he with fire. 2Ki 25:8 ,9
So Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar.
Am I right in thinking that JW's get the 2,520 years in two ways?
A) As above, 7 (years) x 360 (days) equals 2,520 (then day for a year)
B) 3.5 times of 1,260 days doubled to 7 times of 2,520 days (then day for a year)
Or is one way the old way of working it out and the other the new way?
wizzstick:
Am I right in thinking that JW's get the 2,520 years in two ways?
A) As above, 7 (years) x 360 (days) equals 2,520 (then day for a year)
B) 3.5 times of 1,260 days doubled to 7 times of 2,520 days (then day for a year)
Or is one way the old way of working it out and the other the new way?
Both (B first, then A.)
They say that '1260 days' as '3.5 times' in Revelation determines how long a 'time' is in Daniel (even though the word translated 'times' in Daniel can refer to various time periods and not just 'years', and it isn't the same word as that used in Revelation), to arrive at 360. Then they multiply 7 by that result to arrive at 2520.
They don't apply the supposed 'day for a year' 'rule' for the 2 other instances of 'times' used in this manner at Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, or the reference at Revelation 11:3, all of which they claim refer to a literal period from December 1914 until mid-1918.
Thanks Jeffro.
Your help on these queries is always appreciated.
