Question About 607BCE and How That Date Was Picked - Help JW Scholars

by Comatose 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Comatose

  So I've been sharing some a little at a time with my sister. She is married and very scared of actually learning too much. She doesn't want to ruin her marriage. My BIL is a born in and not likely to ever leave. Anyways, here is the question.

  Where did Russell get the date 607BCE? I know it was thought of first by Nelson Barbour and before him a Brown I think. But, where did that date come from? Secular history shows that the fall was in 586/587. Did these early Adventists get the date from bad math, bad history that was later revised, or from some crazy source? For example, if they arrived at the date 607 by something wacky like pyramid research, well then that's a perfect proof that the whole 1914 scam is in fact false.

  Reason for question, WT says that early bible students discerned Jesus rule would begin in 1914. Of course I've shown my sister the Harp of God where Jesus rule was said to start in like 1799 or something and 1914 was the year of the rapture and armageddon.

  But, what would really help me in explaining this to my sister and maybe one day parents is to know where these early Adventists leaning guys came up with the date 607?
• 

  Laika

  Actually I think Russell came up with the date 606 which got pushed back to 607 when he discovered there was no year 0. Must admit I don't know how he got 606 though!
• 

  notjustyet

  Here is a great link to JWFACTS.com where you can find loads of info about the JW beliefs and how they cannot be based on reality.

  If ever in doubt, try this site. When on the jwfacts.com site, they have a search function and I just typed in "william miller" and got this link as a result.

  Hope this helps with your research.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-1914-7-times-history.php

  NJY
• 

  Comatose

  The info on JW facts is really great. However it doesn't mention where the date came from. That's the most important question here. How did they arrive at the date 607-606?

  Remember the watchtower is adamant that 607 B.C.E. Is the date for the fall of Jerusalem. Secular history of course says it was 586 or 587. So where did this 606 or 607 date come from initially?
• 

  notjustyet

  The following is just speculation about he CTR arrived at the date of 1914 initially.

  I was wondering if CTR was not trying to reverse engineer that date. I think he already had 1874 as Christ presence, and I believe he added 40 years to that due to some Jubilee rule. Not sure, SO,... SO,.. he used the 2520 years from William Miller to start looking backwards to see what Bible event happened around that time so that he could start counting forward to be able to justify his date of 1914. 586 or 587 BCE was close enough to work with to hitch his beginning date to.

  NJY
• 

  redvip2000

  The info on JW facts is really great. However it doesn't mention where the date came from.

  True. Ok so this how it went:

  CT Russell and Barbour started with a date of the first year of Cyrus's reign, which is 536 BC - Cyrus allows Jews to return home ( this is historical stuff which can be proven.) . Now the bullsh!t starts - from this date, they figured that it was the end of the 70 years of desolation of Jerusalem. So they count back 70 years to 606 bc. The rest you already know...

  So they never knew when Jerusalem was destroyed, they simply imagined a date for the end of the 70 years of desolation, and from that date, made up all of the other dates including 1914.
• 

  Comatose

  So, it all hinges on the fact that to a JW or other fundamentalist, the bible cant be wrong. If Cyrus started ruling in 536 then the end must have happened exactly 70 years later...

  This isn't really my smoking gun then. Better to stick to the fact that he got it from other people and not HS, as well as the fact that he didnt think 1914 was the return of Jesus. He thought that was in 1874. 1914 was the rapture and armageddon. The fact that WT lies to everyone about their expectations for 1914 is very damning.
• 

  Old Goat

  606 was a commonly used date in the 19th Century. It came to Russell through E. B. Elliott's Horae. 607 was an alternate date that accounted for the "no year zero" problem. Much of this story is told in Schulz and De Vienne: Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet. It's on Barnes and Noble as an ebook, lulu.com has paperback. It's well worth the money.
• 

  wizzstick

  So, it all hinges on the fact that to a JW or other fundamentalist, the bible cant be wrong. If Cyrus started ruling in 536 then the end must have happened exactly 70 years later...

  Worth baring in mind that JW's are inconsistent with the whole, if the Bible says 70 years then it must be a literal 70 years.

  Check out Tyre:

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200275991/23/0
• 

  AnnOMaly

  Russell/Barbour used 606 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction. It was based on two premises:

  1. The Bible states that the land would be 'desolate, without an inhabitant' for 70 years. This could only be when Zedekiah was dethroned and the city destroyed.
  2. Cyrus' 1st regnal year, when he allowed the Jews to go home, was 536 BCE.

  536 + 70 = 606.

  As Old Goat said, 606 BCE (give or take a year or two) was commonly used by those in the 19th century and before as a basis for scholars' prophetic number-crunching. It is important to note, however, that 606 BCE was always counted as the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's reign rather than, as Russell/Barbour insisted, his 18th year when he sacked Jerusalem.

  (redvip - just saw that you said the same LOL.)

  Then, as was mentioned, the WTS realized there was no Year 0 between BCE and CE, so it got moved to 607 BCE.

  1799 was seen as the start of the 'last days'; Jesus' Presence began 1874; Jesus was installed as King in 1878; The end of the Gentile times (i.e. the earthly kingdoms being crushed out of existence as per Dan. 2:44), rapture and Millennium of Peace in 1914.