So how exactly did this "new translation" come to be?

by sir82 79 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  wasblind

  Not to mention, that everyone working with thier own versions are convinced of the righteousness of thier biblical interpretation , even if they are" wrong" to others_____Wonderment

  " 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things are fullfilled . 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only." ( New King James Version )

  Here's the wrong interpretation the " Secret Bible Committe " fed the sheep in their interpretations of the Bible

  Dates

  " Bible chronology also pinpointed in advance the time when certain important events in the fulfillment of God's purpose would take place."________Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 93

  " Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all things foretold will occur, including the "Great Tribulation" in which the present wicked world will end."_____

  Reasoning from the Scriptures Book page 97

  .
• 

  wasblind

  It's a revision, not a re-translation____Jeffro

  I have to disagree wit you there Jeffro, " Increased knowledge " " Nu lite " and " Bud Lite "

  means the boys in Brooklyn translated the Bible wrong

  Their troof is never added to but completely changed
• 

  slimboyfat

  The 2013 Edition smoothed out the Hebrew readings quite a bit, a daunting task which does require some knowledge of the originals as well, unless they are willing to make an ass of themselves, which I doubt is the case here.

  Wonderment that is the key question. Is whoever produced the revision competent in the original languages or did he simply improve the style of the English. As you indicate, if they did not know the original languages then there is plenty of scope for them to have made a mess of the translation without being aware of it. It would be great to get scholars to have a look at it and give their opinion.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Another thought:

  If the GB/FDS has only existed since 1919, and ONLY they can interpret the scriptures, then how do we know that the antiquated translations that served as "food" for the WTBTS, and that are part of the exhibit to honor JEHOVAH(tm) are reliable? From 33 c.e until 1919, who was authorized, or had the ability to make a translation of the oldest MSS available? Nobody, according to the nu-light. There wasn't 1 human being in all of history until 1919 qualified to interpret or translate anything, especially Westcott and Hort. What about all those scribes in the past? What were they doing? Were they authorized to do anything? They were not the FDS. Why did God inspire non-FDS apostles to pen his words in the first place?

  Also, truth is always true, it cannot change. For instance, the Earth has always been a sphere, and revolved around the Sun. That was "truth" long before it could be observed. So any Religious leader that taught the opposite could not just say they had their view adjusted. They were just wrong.

  Likewise, IF it has always been a "truth" that ONLY the FDS can dispense spiritual food, then the current WTBTS GB cannot be the ONLY FDS, due to the massive volumes of Bibles and commentaries produce throughout history. Either their current idea is flawed or no Bible translation or commentary ever produced outside the WTBTS qualifies as "spiritual food." Only the GB, existing since 1919 can dispense "spiritual food " so anything NOT produced by those at World Headquarters since 1919 must be from the table of demons by default. So either the FDS spoken of by Jesus is a prophecy about the GB post 1919, and only they can interpret the Bible, or it's not, and others, even non-JWs are invloved in dispensing spiritual food.

  Using any literature, Bibles or Bible commentaries NOT produced since 1919 by the FDS makes no sense at all. We can't even trust the Strong's concordance as it was NOT produced by the FDS post 1919. If any lurking apologist claims that Jehovah's spirit somehow overshadowed or directed anyone outside of the WTBTS, or even the WTBTS themselves pre-1919 ( CTR ), then they are contradictiing the current nu-light and the GB along with the WTBTS's view of any Bible translations.

  I quote from the foreword of the Kingdom Interlinear, " No uninspired translator or committee of translators can claim any direct command from the most high God to engage translating the divine word into another language." Also, " More than that, those who provide a translation for the spiritual instruction of others come under a special responsibility as teachers under the divine judge."

  That would certainly be the case of ALL uninspired translators,... or would it? There really can't be any "teachers" besides the FDS can there? Not unless the nu-light is incorrect. So all those past committees are of the hook since they were never part of the FDS, and can't be held accountable. If the nu-light is "truth", then I hope for their sake, that the NWT committee started from scratch with the oldest extant MSS when making the NWT, which they also used for the RNWT. Perhaps they mispoke when they said, " The Greek text that we have used..is the widely accepted Westcott and Hort."

  I hope so. Otherwise they used non-spiritual food items from Satan's kitchen when preparing the NWT and any publications that were based on the NWT. By claiming to be THE FDS, they have placed themselves " under a special responsibility as teachers under the divine judge."
• 

  wasblind

  I quote from the foreward of the Kingdom Interlinear, " No uninspired translator or commitee of translators can claim any direct command from the most high God to engage translating the divine word into any other language."______DATA DOG

  " Have not jehovah's Witnesses made errors in thier teachings ?

  Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired."_____Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 136

  As Snowbird used to say, " Tee hee hee "

  I guess that blows their claim of bein' a " Spirit directed Organization "

  .
• 

  breakfast of champions

  What was claimed at the AM (and maybe someone else could back me on ths) was that the NWT was the Best Bible EVAHHHHHH because it was translated by ANNOINTED BROTHERS AT HEADQUARTERS ( i.e. THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE.) Yeah, Tyndale and King James and all those other bastards were fine, but only this translation was produced by the FDS.
• 

  Jeffro

  wasblind:

  I have to disagree wit you there Jeffro

  You're welcome to disagree. But it's fairly evident that they've just gone through the old NWT and replaced various words and expressions with ones they've deemed more modern. Essentially, similar to their process when they translate the NWT from English into other languages. It doesn't show evidence of retranslation of the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek from scratch.
• 

  Wonderment

  Data-Dog:

  Many of us here don't believe all this talk about only anointed ones providing spiritual food. I certainly don't.

  The history book of JWs (Proclaimers...) was prepared by Karl Adams and Barbara Anderson. Tell me: where they anointed? This is what Barbara said:

  "Oh, by the way, I know without a doubt that while I was in the Writing Department, none of the Governing Body researched and wrote any articles and books that the Society published".

  So this anointed providing spiritual food is b*** s***. The anointed ones do control the Writing Staff, and anyone else who allows them such control.

  Although the NWT translation Committe may have members who know some Hebrew or Greek (???), more likely than not, it is someone else carrying the torch load. Shhh! That is a secret. Don't ask and don't tell!
• 

  Band on the Run

  I am no expert on Bible translation or translations. Because of my interest in NT scholarship, I tried to learn Koine Greek, which was a requirement for the seminary that I wanted to attend. After struggling with French for about ten years, I did not want to struggle. The local Anglican Seminary in NY is General. General dropped its Greek requirement when the aftermath of WWII caused a need for more priests. It lost its academic edge when it did so. The priests were prob. just as competent as the important ministry they do. A grad told me I could fake it by a cheat sheet.

  I expect that to translate one needs more than a cheat sheet. Connotations and English skills are important. I love the KHV, NRSV, and New English Bibles. The Good News drives me crazy. I love Shakesoeare and Milton. Winston Churchill was good at rendering ideas into English that was inspiring. Perhaps I view the Bible as a sacred book so I like the sacred language. Rituals are also important to me. It is just my cup of tea, neithe right nor wrong.

  It would seem that to translate a Bible one would like an academic who has spent many decades studying the languages and meeting with others who do so to exchange ideas. The academic world engages in academic controversies and research. Somehow I believe the GB lacks this heft. Is it possible to learn Greek or Hebrew by books? I imagine it is. When I choose a surgeon, though, I want someone who has done many thousands of surgeries so the surgery is second nature and not a good try.

  I could be wrong. The world seems more complex and specialties increase. It seems a generalist may be needed to recruit other people. The GB probably did not grapple with any concepts. It does seem as though it was a big production to change a few scriptures. Other people here analyzed how many of the changes appear to be doctrine driven. I don't want company men to tell me what scripture says. It is not as though the world lacks Bible translations. A visit to any Barnes and Nobles reveals a host of valid translations. As someone who loves the art of English, it is sad that Witnesses must use such inelegant usage. I have a choice now. Choice is now.

  I suggest thata compilation of different translations, complete with FNs, would serve for better education of the Bible. We know the true place of the Bible within the WTBTS. We are incapable of understanding God's word, written in our native tongues. No, we need a bunch of window washers of no great calibre to read it for us. Tension between ideas is a good thing. My understanding is that early texts leave much to a translator. Why not let people know this? Why, indeed.

  Gray/Grey is an odd color choice. Why not fuschia or orange? When I was young, Bibles were black or dark brown, with gilt edges and index tabs. Jesus' words were frequently rendered in red lettering to show that Jesus was more than an angel.
• 

  wasblind

  " Many of us here don't believe all this talk about only the annointed ones providing spiritual food. I certainly don't "

  " So this anointed providing spiritual food is bull shit_"_______Wonderment

  " How do Jehovah's witnesses arrive at their explanation of the Bible ?

  Jesus said that he would have on earth a "faithful and discreet slave" ( his anointed followers viewed as a group ), through which agency he would provide spiritual food to those making up the household of faith. Jehovah's witnesses recognize that arrangement . As was true of first century christians, they looked to the governing body of that slave class to resolve difficult questions, not on the basis of human wisdom"_____Reasoning from the scriptures Book page 205

  " Although the NWT committee may have members who know some Hebrew or Greek (???)_"________Wonderment

  " Is it really a scholarly translation?

  Scince the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of the educational background."__________Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 277

  You sound somewhat courious there, could it be Wonderment ?

  .