The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things (page 6)

Bugbear

For thousands and thosands of years humans have had the Idea of a god. No other explanation of life were at hands.Muslims pray (if they are not secularized) 5 times (or8?) a day. Chatolics pray every day in their churches. Pentacoast people pray in tounges. Many africans pray to a stone or some figure they believe is a God. Pharaones had the idea that they should unite withtheir ancestors. Socrates belived he should unite with the heavenly gods. It seams to me that the idea of a god, was un evolutionary necessaryidea to make humans sustain in live and to keep the next generation with some hope. Not one of all these prayers can ve.s.s.frify that one singleprayer have been heard by god.

300 hundred years ago some clever men and women, discoverd the absolute absence of a god. Many of them became deist. (God is absent)some of them become Pietists (god is whitin my heard and I have a personal feeling that I can speak to god with my heart) Today we know that god is not necessary for life. And less and less people feel the need of praying. Why continue to pray to someone who hasn´t heard you for at least 6000 years. This despite from which religion the prayers come. Humans are stucked up with ideas they have learned from their fathers, mothers, teachers, mullahs, preast. And they are stucked up with what they WANT to belive. Look at JW:s. They still believe in that there are some truth in what the GB says. Some people also believe in what the Bible says. I feel pity for all humans.

Bugbear

whathappened

I would love to live forever in a paradise earth. That is why I swallowed the BS they were constantly dishing out. I love my daughter and grandson and want to see them forever. Guess I am just a typical momma.

THE GLADIATOR

tec "Hi Glad!! I am 'glad' to hear from you, lol. I miss talking with you." Miss you too Tammy - must call in more often.

hannes

@ tammy You are bringing up important and valuable thoughts. All will see the fulfillment of God's promises. How else should every one be judged? In their absence? Certainly not. Judgement means to see, receive and give justice. If all Israel, who were unfaithful, will see the greatness of God, how much more those that haven't even heard anything before. What do you think of this: The Apostle heared: Israel. Tribes and numbers counted. What he then sees, though: Great people, unnumerable, from all tribes and nations and languages. What he first heared (in signs) is what he then saw (depicting the reality): a kingdom of priests and princes for God. To establish a restored and renewed mankind. God bless your heart and mind and all your doing! Hannes

cofty

hannes - Why do you think the visions of Revelation should be read as literal truths?

Do you think every word of Revelation is true or do you pick and choose which bits you like?

Is it more likely - that the author actually received prophetic visions cleverly disguised as a drug-induced trip, or that he was actually having a drug-induced trip?

All will see the fulfillment of God's promises

Modern humans have been around for about 200 000 years. In all that time god hasn't done a single thing. What makes you think he makes, let along keeps, promises?

tec

Thank you, Hannes, for you kind words and hope for blessing.

Yes, he heard the number of Israel (all the tribes, and that number being set)... and then he also saw the great crowd from all tribes/nations/tongues that no one could count (as that number is not set), and all of these make up the kings and priests in the coming Kingdom of God.

May you also have peace and love as Christ gives,

tammy

hannes

Hi cofty!

Very early in my childhood I had come to believe we stem from more primitive forms of life and all had evolved by mere chance and necessity (J. Monod). I ridiculed ideas like T. de Jardin's of a universe evolving through God's word to a state he termed cosmic Christ. I considered it utterly foolish and narrow minded catholicism. I disliked and despised what I saw and heared this man named Christ supposedly was about.

I was not a happy child or youth but certainly felt I was happier and much more free than if I tried to be religious after human fashion. I still thi k so. When I came (as a young man) to read Paul and John and Moses and Koheleth it was surprise and revelation to me. These men were not the fools I had thought they had been. I have come to trust there is a just and mighty God. I still feel fear but would feel even more if I tried to deny the hope and perspective that my life has gotten. I am still less than most other people I know. I can not see, though, how returning to what I believed formerly (i.e. nothing really) would help in my case. However, I believe even a stubborn atheist (in the face of foolish religion) is closer to God in his being true to his inner heart and towards his fellow humans than many of the most religious who are liars and deceived by the thought of their own greatness.

Regarding the antiquity of humankind my trust in the concepts of much early history and dating is little. I am no witness. Historians and Biologists aren't either.

hannes

I thank you Tammy.

What I tried to say is: They are the same. For God: counted and known and regarded as Israel, his people. For a human: they are innumerable and diverse, from all backgrounds, collected out of dispersion.

In the same book there is talk of one saying he is a Jew, but then told he is not. Here it is different: They may not know what they are. God knows and and gives them honour.

There are no two people or crowds, but one. It is the same.

tec

I think I see what you are saying, Hannes... and I agree in part, and understand a bit different in one aspect.

You are right that there are not two different crowds serving as kings and priests (like two different classes). However, this ONE crowd is made from different groups.

There are 144000 reserved from Israel... and there are an uncounted number from every tribe,nation,etc. (this may include numbers from Israel as well, it is just that there are a guaranteed 144000 from Israel who are serving as kings and priests; as well as an uncounted number from everyone else)

So these two BECOME one. But as you have said, it does not refer to two groups... it only refers to the different people/places are from, coming into the One group.

Similar as to how Paul kept saying that the two become one, when he was referring to Jew and Gentile.

When revelation speaks of the 144000, it is very specific about mentioning each of the twelve tribes, and that there are an equal number from each tribe... rather than just speaking about spiritual Israel. (those of us grafted IN, as Paul tried to demonstrate, and the same as what you already understand, that some are Israel without knowing... spritual Israel... because they are Abraham's children, showing the faith of Abraham; and their faith is in Christ)

I hope I didn't make that confusing, lol. Our understanding of the kings and priests is the same for the most part; I just understand that there is ALSO a guaranteed number from all twelve tribes of Israel, in keeping with God's covenant with Israel, and the remnant that He has said that He has reserved.

Peace and love to you,

tammy

cofty

I have come to trust there is a just and mighty God.

Where do you see evidence of god's justice hannes?

The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things

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