Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?

by metatron 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • besty

    my guesstimate is $2k per sqm internal space, of which the proposed project is about 114,000 sq m + parking garage. I would say $250m will be in the zone.

  • Vidiot
    insearchoftruth4 - "There's got to be a way to stop these fuckers!!"


    Withdrawing to a rural area can often be regarded as tentative comfirmation that an apocalyptic group is in decline; when it happens, the group further marginilizes itself, aften turns extremist, and alienates even more of its membership scattered about in the real world.

    I'd have thought that XJW "apostates" would welcome that kind of news.

  • JeffT

    Besty, I figured $200 a foot which is very close to your estimate. I then doubled it becuase in 25 years of real estate experience I've never seen a project come in on time or on budget. I expect they'll want to gold plate their nest which drives up the cost. Either way, they can build it and have some money left over to live on. Central NYC is some of the most expensive real estate in the world. Selling it off makes sense from a financial perspective.

  • Vidiot
    metatron - " Is the WTS building Beth Sarim 2?"

    Wouldn't you if you were them?

  • JakeM2012

    114,000 sq. meters =1,227,085 square feet. I could be wrong, but the source "Brooklyn Eagle" gives a square footage of 832,000.

    Also, there are several existing buildings already on site, " The organization is cleaning existing buildings on the site constructed by International Nickel — a two-story former laboratory and a one-story industrial building — and preparing for future development, Facilities Manager Troy Snyder said."

    " The campus buildings will include a three-to-four-story, 195,000-square-foot office building and place of worship; a three-to-four-story, 137,000-square-foot service building with kitchen, laundry and support functions; four five-story residential structures totaling 400,000 square feet; a two-story 100,000-square-foot maintenance shop; a three-level parking garage; and additional smaller buildings, including a vehicle repair shop (for onsite vehicles), a heating/cooling/generator house and a recreation building." (

    According to the newspaper The total square footage without the listed smaller buildings is 832,000 square feet, remember that there are several buildings existing on site that are being "cleaned up".

    832,000 x $200 per square foot=$166,400,000. Jeff T's estimate, which is sound.

    We also have to remember that a quick quide of estimating cost for these types of building is that material and labor are roughly in a relationship of 50/50 to each other. So if the rest of the world can build at $200 a square foot this type of office/residence hotel/ finished, what is the true cost of WTBT$?

    Consider Reed Construction data Reports the U.S.A National Average 4-7 Story Hotel Construction Cost cost with Union Trades, Architects, and General Contractors overhead and profit of $181.76 per square foot.

    Hotel, 4-7 Story Construction Cost Assumptions
    Location: US National Average
    Stories: 6
    Story Height (L.F.): 10.00
    Floor Area (S.F.): 135000
    Basement Included: No
    Data Release: Year 2013
    Cost Estimate (Union Labor)% of TotalCost Per SFCost
    Total $137.17$18,518,500
    Contractor Fees (GC,Overhead,Profit)25%$34.29$4,629,600
    Architectural Fees6%$10.29$1,388,900
    Total Building Cost$181.76$24,537,000
    Cost Estimate (Open Shop)% of TotalCost Per SFCost
    Total $126.50$17,077,000
    Contractor Fees (GC,Overhead,Profit)25%$31.62$4,269,300
    Architectural Fees6%$9.49$1,280,800
    Total Building Cost$167.61$22,627,000

    Personally I think that even including some expenses of food and shelter incurred with the cost of volunteer labor it would not be a greater cost than running union trades.

    Subtract the General Contractors overhead and profit, along with Architectural Fees, your looking at $137 per square foot. $137x 832,000 sq.ft=$113,984,000 U.S. Dollars. Even with a 15% contingency for actual cost to be greater than estimated costs, another $17,097,600, total cost is $131,081,600.

    If they just sold their New York City Property for $810 million -$113 million (cost of new building) they are left with $697,000,000. And I don't believe the $810 includes all their property does it?

    Compare this to the cost to The Bellagio Hotel, Las Vegas 1998 dollars

    Bellagio Las Vegas

    3600 South Las Vegas Boulevard
    Las Vegas NV United States

    Construction Dates
    Floor Count37
    Floor Area445,920 m²
    Units / Rooms3,015
    Building Uses
    - hotel
    - casino
    - conference
    - parking garage
    - restaurant
    - retail
    Structural Types
    - highrise
    Architectural Style
    - postmodern
    - glass
    - steel

    - concrete

    445920 square meters= 4,799,842 square feet. Cost of Bellagio $1,600,000,000/4,799,842 square feet=$333 per square foot. in 1998 dollars.

    At $1.6 billion, the Bellagio was the most expensive hotel ever built when it opened in 1998 on the site of the former Dunes.

    MGM Resorts International bought the hotel from Steve Wynn, along with the Mirage and Treasure Island, in 2000 for $6.2 billion. The company has spent almost $500 million since then on additions and renovations.

    The Bellagio today has 3,933 rooms, more than 100,000 square feet of casino space and 200,000 square feet of convention space.

    ($1,600,000,000 / 3933 rooms=$406,000 per room with all the other square footage for resturants, convention space etc.

    Even at $406,000 per room the cost of 800 WTBTS rooms at Warwick NY, would be $324,000,000.

    Another way to look at it at the 1998 cost of building the Belagio of $333 per square foot, WTBTS's 832,000 square feet x $333 per square foot= $277,056,000.

    WTBTS is and does NOT build to the high standard of the most expensive hotel in the world (1998 dollars) even with inflation. Bethel wraps carpet up the walls in the corridors, cheap, crap, cheap crap, cheap crap.

    If WTBTS incorporated similar finishes and amenities that the Belagio Hotel in Las Vegas did were talking at the most $277,056,000 to $324,000,000. Watchtower is/are not building to that level of luxury or quality!!!!

    Cost of basement style underground parking? The NewPaper also reported that WTBTS, "Most of the 750 parking spaces at the facility would be underground." Further, if they are just building garages in what would otherwise be basements floors there is no additional cost structurally.

    Below are recent bids awarded for a parking garage at Texas State University that is similar to the size of WTBTS: " Project also includes landscape garden, bus shelters and major pedestrian connections. There was very little room for value engineering given the standards in the Campus Master Plan (Very high Standards). Cement and structural steel costs are through the roof around here. Also, this garage had some (architectural) dressing up done on it."

    Total bid: $14.9 million
    Garage Portion of bid: about $13.7 million based on an earlier bid
    Number of spaces: 721
    Floors: 4? one of which is partially below grade.
    Cost per space: $19,000

  • metatron

    Great stuff, guys.

    This seems to lead us into a different mystery: What the heck are doing with all those left over hundreds of billions?

    And cutting back everywhere? Forcing publishers to travel longer distances in winter weather to go to consolidated Kingdom Halls? Magazines that are a 16 page joke?

    WTF???? How greedy are these guys? And more than that, it starts to look like they didn't really need most of these cuts. Are they deliberately going out of business?


  • VM44

    Here is the purpose of Wallkill according to a document submitted by the Watchtower.

    "The proposed World Headquarters will provide space for a religious administrative campus comprised of approximately 8 buildings along with several accessory site structures constructed on approximately 45 acres of the 253 acre site. The proposed project is intended to relocate the offices of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses and various supporting departments and committees from Brooklyn, NY to a rural setting in closer proximity to the Jehovah's Witnesses two other upstate facilities in Shawangunk, NY and Patterson, NY. The project is located at 1 Kings Drive in the Town of Warwick, New York."

  • VM44

    The main purpose of Wallkill is to provide new offices for the Governing Body!!!

  • JakeM2012

    So you have eight offices for the GB, and yet they are building a complex for 800-1000 people to serve them?

  • Scott77

    'Listen, Obey and Get Screwed'. looks very interesting statement. I liked it


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