They are simply getting the hell out of a terrorist target.
One more terrorist attack of similar proportions and NYC real estate values plummet.
Good time to sell.
Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron 60 Replies latest jw friends
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Crazyguy
I think like everyone else here that its a new San Diego for them. I have read that in NY some of the living places for the GB are a bit cramped. So why not sell and take the money, then rebuild in a new cheaper place and this time make sure that the living facilities for the GB are much nicer.
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Chaserious
Transferring assets to avoid creditors or potential creditors is against the law
The first part is correct, but the second is not. It's perfectly legal to transfer assets if that transfer happens to have the effect of making the assets unavailable to unknown future creditors. Under fraudulent transfer law there has to be an intent to avoid a specific liability. By making transfers when the organization is in good financial condition, they stay out of constructive fraudulent transfer territory also. And even if transfers are determined to be fraudulent, there is a limited look back period, so after enough time passes even a fraudulent transfer can't be reached. Under bankruptcy law, preferential transfers can be recovered from a bankrupt even without meeting the above, but at most you can only go back one year. I'm not an expert on trusts, but I'm sure if they wanted to, they could move assets into some kind of asset-protection trusts outside of the U.S., or transfer assets to another Watchtower related corporation overseas and after a while, those assets couldn't be reached to satisfy U.S. judgments. (Or make it so expensive to reach that judgment creditors will settle for pennies on the dollar). As an example, it's not uncommon at all for doctors to make some of their assets hard to reach just in case there is a huge malpractice suit. You just can't do it after you commit the malpractice.
That said, I highly doubt asset protection is a significant factor. If the WTS were to face massive liability, the new branch land and buildings would still be available, as would all of the assembly halls and at least all domestic assets. I'm sure they aren't planning on that happening.
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JeffT
Chaserious, I agree with what you say (particularly, upon reflection, regarding potential liabilities). However as you point out, most of the assets are still where they can be attached in a court case. A trust might work, but they'd pretty much lose control of the assets if they did that.
Overall, I think its about selling valuable land in NYC and replacing it with something cheaper upstate. I'm trying to do some research on what I think they're going to spend on the new complex, as a rough figure I'd say $500 million, but that still leaves them with a chunk of change they can invest and live off of for many years to come.
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Nathan Natas
An appropriate name for the place would be
BETH SHAM
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MrFreeze
They aren't prepping for any doomsday. They know they are full of it. At least the old crew believed in the BS they spewed.
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metatron
I think my main points still stand. What the heck are they doing?
Yes, I gather that they freaked out about 9/11 and wanted to move. And the Brooklyn stuff is worth big bucks. And yes, since they hardly print gonzo volumes of books anymore they don't need a convenient, world famous port city to ship it everywhere.
The building program in the middle of Nowhere, NY still needs an explanation. Are they just retiring? Slowly giving up? Packing it in?
metatron
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JakeM2012
The following examples shown give us an idea of how much $800,000,000 (what WTBTS recently sold in Brooklyn) looks like in true construction cost. True construction cost meaning all labor trades are paid for (many buildings with union contractors), engineering, architects, etc paid to companies that some supply health insurance, retirement, etc for their employees. No unpaid "volunteers" worked on the following projects.
OK so WTBTS couldn't buy the World Trade Center for $3.8 billion. Granted.
Completing the One World Trade Center will cost $3.8 billion, The Wall Street Journal reports , making it "by far" the most expensive building in the world. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/31/one-world-trade-center-will-cost-38-billion-dollars-expensive-building-in-the-world_n_1243917.html)
Cowboys Stadium Irving Texas $1.3 Billion
WTBTS could buy a football Stadium
The three newest pro football stadiums have cost $720 million (Lucas Oil Stadium, 2008), $1.15 billion(Cowboys Stadium, 2009) and $1.6 billion ( MetLife Stadium , 2010). Major League Baseball hasn't seen quite that level of inflation, but it has produced the three most expensive ballparks in history in 2008 (Nationals Park, $611 million) and 2009 (Citi Field, $900 million; Yankee Stadium, $1.5 billion). Perhaps it's worth noting that MLB's newest venue, four-month-old Marlins Park — the league's sixth to feature a retractable roof, and its smallest in total seating capacity — cost a mere $515 million.
Cruise Ships
This is the brochure for the Royal Princess Cruise Ship cost $735,000,000 (http://www.princess.com/downloads/pdf/ships/royal_princess.pdf)
PRINCESS cruise ships Year Built Tonnage Capacity Persons Cost in Millions Cost Per Berth Caribbean Princess 2004 113,000 3,096 $500 $129,000 Coral Princess 2003 91,600 1,974 $360 $141,000 Crown Princess 2006 113,000 3,070 $500 $130,000 Dawn Princess 1997 77,500 2,016 $300 $126,000 Diamond Princess 2004 115,900 2,674 $400 $121,000 Emerald Princess 2007 113,000 3,066 $500 $130,000 Golden Princess 2001 109,600 2,592 $450 $141,000 Grand Princess 1998 109,000 2,588 $450 $141,000 Island Princess 2003 91,600 1,974 $360 $141,000 Ocean Princess 2009 30,300 678 $150 $192,000 Pacific Princess 2002 30,300 678 $150 $192,000 Regal Princess 2014 141,000 3,600 $735 $175,000 Royal Princess 2013 139,000 3,600 $735 $175,000 Ruby Princess 2008 116,000 3,068 $500 $130,000 Sapphire Princess 2004 116,00 2,674 $400 $121,000 Sea Princess 1998 77,500 2,016 $300 $126,000 Star Princess 2001 109,000 2,592 $450 $141,000 Sun Princess 1998 77,700 2,016 $300 $127,000.00 In August 2003 cost of the building Frost Tower in Austin Texas was estimated at $137 million. [3]
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joe134cd
Gee I find this topic interesting.
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metatron
Thank you, Jake, I think you've added some information we need to consider.
I wonder how much labor cost and specialty materials cost go into those structures? Stuff that the Society might save on....
Still, it can't be cheap. Maybe the $500 million idea is valid.
metatron
