by confusedandalone 50 Replies latest jw experiences
I am looking forward to hearing you tell what happens when you hand your letter to the guy, ConfusedandAlone! and, appreciate you writing about it all and how you and your wife have thought everything through and the decision making process.
Shows LOGIC at work, a new thing to many newbie ex-jw like me.
Aside from the obvious cult thinking, your mother seems very opinionated and controlling. Nothing but blame and criticism, nothing she did could possibly be wrong, it must be your Fault, and no wonder, since you won't listen to her. I thought my mother was bad, but she couldn't lay down the guilt like your mom.
Truly, I am somewhat sympathetic to parents who honestly believe in this religion, it is hard when the children choose not to follow it, but come one, you are an adult, it is your choice.
It is easy to write the letter off as "insane" , but it is your mother who is the victim here. The victim of a cult mentality , a mind stuffed full of WT propaganda, and she is on a post-convention 'high'
Any loving Mum just wants a united happy family and for that to continue ad infinitum . There is nothing wrong with that desire. I would just encourage anyone in this position to understand how hard it is for the comitted dubs to see what is staring them in the face, or to empathise with us who have managed to shed the blinkers and see TTATT
LisaRose - She has tried divide and conquer on me and my wife. She started telling the kids that I was not doing what JAH wants. They got upset came home crying. She then told my wife that If I was hindering her that she would take her in. Then when my wife told her to kick rocks she changes up and then tells me that she thinkss the reason I am doing this is because of my wife. Then she blames my wifes family... then she comes full circle and blames me again...
There is a point at which I would think you must realize that you just cant have everything your way.
Blues I kinda understnad what you are saying, but honestly this is like the 7th letter she has written like this. Each more and more desperate. Everytime I respond she grasps for some reason it is happening. She just has to accept it
I had to stop too, jgnat. I stopped reading my mothers letters, taking her phone calls, or seeing her. She would not accept that what she said was abusive. Anyone with similar relationships with their parents or siblings should ask themselves, is this helping me or my family. If not, and they are not listening to you (hearing is not listening), it is time to ask if limited or no contact is healtheir. I don't see the love only control.
http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407
….For human apostates 1 John 2:19 shows that apostates come from among us. Usually they take a stand against the organization because they have been counseled about something. As a result, they pridefully resent the counsel, become bitter and jealous and in the end, reject the counsel. They reject Jehovah’s service, field ministry and don’t try to make disciples, rather they try to draw away disciples of Jesus. As a result the scriptures tell us toavoid them. Romans 16:17,18 “Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them
1 John 2:21b states: "[N]o lie originates with the truth." I rejected the Watch Tower Society because I became acquainted with their earlier teachings -- and couldn't reconcile those earlier teachings with the claims (i.e. lies) they made about their history.
I so understand what your going through!! It sucks, I know.
Just remember they think they are trying to save your life, once they realize you're done they will write you off as dead and leave you alone.
Outlaw: love the picture!!!
Dear Mom:
Perhaps in 2014 you can start attending conventions in May and then attend one every weekend through September. Surely by then you will have reached a spirtitually orgasmic state of euphoria. The value of the provision of spiritual food is interpreted through the eye of the beholder. Nearly 100 years ago.....I am willing to bet that those that attended conventions in 1925 were eagerly awaiting the resurrection of the faithful men of old. They valued those "current truths" just as much as you today value "current truth". In regard to the "brotherhood", I see nothing different from this organization than I do other organizations. I see sisters that gossip and slander. I see elders that do the same and that can't even get along with each other. Do they band together to help out a brother in need? Yes....but no more so than the people at St mary's church band together to feed and clothe the homeless. What concerns me about THIS "brotherhood" is that if a person is disfellowshipped due to an unfortunate act of immorality or due to his unwillingness to fully accept without question a particular teaching.....he is completely cut off. That isn't true love. That is harshness and control. Jesus showed us true love by eating with the sinners. The organization shows us conditional love by treating those that are not in an approved social status as though they are dead.
Just like Pontius Pilate asked, "what is truth?".....I shall ask something similar. What is apostacy? If a man can no longer accept teachings that have changed over the years from what he USED TO KNOW AND AGREE WITH.....does that really constitute apostacy? If so.....is it apostacy from the bible....or from God.....or is it apostacy from the interpretations of an organization? Where does the bible itself say that you cannot understand it without the help of the governing body? Where does the bible itself limit God's free gift to those that are part of a human organization? I listened to the talks on apostacy and to tell you the truth, I was disgusted. It was line after line of hate speech and verbal attacks without even once addressing some of the claims that apostates have. If we have the sole truth.....then defending it should not be a problem. Those that have truth on their side eagerly await the chance to defend. Those that have something to hide resort to name calling without ever actually addressing the claims of their counterparts.
I am glad that you are no longer offended and are seeking to apply Matthew 18:15. But why? Why did it take going to a SECOND convention to convince you to apply biblical counsel that you already knew? Was it simply because THAT was on the summer program......so you are going to apply it? (outta sight.....outta mind....conversely....IN sight....IN mind?)
Allow me, please, to de-construct what you said to my wife. Based on your DEFENSE of what you wrote.....you STILL see nothing wrong with it.
Those two sweethearts deserve to be able to experience loving grandparents. Especially grandparents that love and serve Jehovah. The scriptures help us appreciate the danger of bad association, no matter if it's an associate or family member. You take them to visit with worldly relatives at holiday time but don't want them to visit with grandparents and cousins that love and worship Jehovah?
Are you telling me that you see absolutely nothing wrong with this statement? The insinuation is that my wife's parents are not loving! And if that wasn't what you were insinuating......then why write it at all? By using the word "especially" you then connect the second sentence to the first. Not only are you more loving....but you are to be put on a pedestal because of the religion you have selected. The scriptures do indeed warn of bad association. We prefer for our children to spend time with grandparents that love them for who they are.......and will not WITHDRAW that love should they ever decide not to follow a particular religious order that they had no choice but to be born into. Your chastisement of my wife's offense shows that you.....not her.....are the one in need of counsel.
Does the bible say that beards piss God off? If not.....then please read 1 Cor 4:6 and apply it. Please try to get the congregation, the elders and the governing body to do the same.
I wish you were more open minded. You feel that you have the "one and only truth". Therefore, it is your way (actually the governing body's way) or the highway. Any attempt to actually look at what was being taught 100 years ago to tell if Christ would have really selected this group is met with resistance. Any attempt to discuss why it is ok to demand unquestioned obedience to doctrines that admittedly may change in the future....and enforce that obedience through excommunication and subsequent shunning and emotional blackmail is similarly met with stearn disapproval. The bible tells us to make sure of ALL things. The organization tells us to shut up and obey. I AM serving God as he asks me to. Show me ONE area where I am failing FROM THE BIBLE.
These words alone are more heartbreaking that anything:
"You seem to avoid coming around when I’m home and I noticed today you tried to stay out of my space. That’s okay. I don’t want you to be uncomfortable, I just want you to serve Jehovah as He asks you to do"
You don't care that I avoid you. You don't care that I "stay out of your space". You don't care that affection is waning. All you care about is that I do what the organization tells me to do (that is translated from "serve Jehovah as he asks you to"). And that is the problem with this religion. Natural affection takes a back seat to implicitly obeying the dictates of a human organization. I just wish you could see how inhuman you are becomming.
I also wish you could spot logical fallacies when you see them. Then maybe you wouldn't use them when you talk to me. Your letter is chock full of them. Your next paragraph is an example. It is an appeal to emotion. You made sure to tell me that I wasn't planned for and how sick you became and that abortion was an option (gee thanks....luv you too!) But your love for me would never allow you to do that. I WAS (past tense) a special boy.....smart and bright. You then associate me with being the source of your "unbearable pain". I am causing "all of you" to go through a "bad period". I have made the truth my own. I've done the research I should have done a long time ago. Truth does not change, mom. But wrong interpretations by men DO change. Everything you wrote in that paragraph was an appeal to emotion. You don't even know you were doing it, but you were using guilt and emotional blackmail to try to reach me. I find such an approach to be distasteful, immoral and unethical. I worry about you too mom. I worry that all of your core beliefs and values will change on a whim when 8 men in Brooklyn New York tell you to.
As I mentioned, I have listened to the "apostate" talk. But again, it was pure propaganda. Not once did they address any of the concerns that apostates have. All they did was call names and smear them. They did exactly what the June 22, 2000 Awake warns us NOT to do. (in regard to propaganda). Paul's words to the Romans applied AT THAT TIME because they were having issues with the message of Christ being distorted. But what happens when a person turns aside from a teaching he has learned because that teaching is WRONG? Is it wrong to the RIGHT thing, or does obedience and loyalty to an organization trump truth and love? I am not trying to draw anyone away after myself. Moreover......please show me where the bible says that ALL would engage in the preaching work. And while we're talking about it, show me where the bible says exactly how the message would/must be conveyed 2,000 years later?
You say that "all the while they CLAIM to serve God." This is yet another problem I have with the teachings of the governing body. They feel the need to judge others and make the determination ON BEHALF OF GOD that THEY and their followers are the only ones serving him and that all others are imposters. I think they and you need to apply Matthew 7:1. The CO's, the elders, and the governing body need to be careful what they say on God's behalf then. If they truly represent God......then they need to stop saying things that aren't true!
Mom, you have appealed through emotion and guilt. But not once have you offered to study with me out of the "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" book or "The Finished Mystery".......to show me the valued "truths" that Jesus himself approved. Once you are willing to appeal using logic, reason and above all else........REAL......UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.....let me know. No I was not counseled by anyone.....but thank you for the assumption. No I have nothing in my home "hindering Jehovah's spirit". Besides.....I was under the impression that the holy spirit was stronger than whatever inanimate object satan can produce. And if not......heaven help us all. But I think you may have touched on it with your last insult. My thyroid has become engorged to the point of no longer blindly following the dictates of self appointed men. All of these questions sadden me. They show how mentally captive you are. To you.....there is absolutely no possible reason to question the organization. That is a scary place to be. It is same the mental place that led 1,000 people to drinking poison laced kool aid more than 30 years ago. Mom....I AM using reasoning. And I am asking you to join me. Instead of getting caught up in emotion, let's use facts and reasoning. What properly defines a false prophet? Is Deuteronomy the 18th chapter a good definition? If not why not? Because of Proverbs 4:18? Read that scripture in context and tell me why you think that 1) it is a future prophecy when none of the rest of it is and 2) why it should only apply to one small group of select men starting in 1919? Does truth change? What were the "truths" being taught when Jesus selected the "faithful slave" due to the fact that they alone provided "accurate food at the proper time". If the spiritual food being dispensed is being directed by God then should I ever find any mistakes or contradictions? If the answer is yes is it because the channel being used is made up of imperfect men? If so......then what right do they have to disfellowship me for not believing a teaching that could change in the future due to the imperfection of the channel? Etc Etc.
Your last paragraph sadly shows that you are unwilling to talk or reason. You have made up your mind and the only solution is for me to think like you. The fact that you used "loyalty to Jehovah AND THE CHANNEL HE IS USING" in the same breath shows that to you......the two are one and the same. They are inseparable. Just like the Catholic faith has the confusing teaching of the trinity, so Jehovah's witnesses have a dual God. Jehovah....and the governing body. The governing body exists because of God......yet a relationship with God cannot be had except THROUGH them. Why not? They have removed Jesus mediatorship anyways. Like I said.....the two have become inseparable. Please show me where the SCRIPTURES back these teachings up. Do you really want to learn, mom? If so, let's study together some of the older publications. If they can't be trusted to show real truth.....then can the publications you put 100% trust in right now be counted on in 10 or 20 years? I promise never to leave you. I just ask that you not put loyalty to a man made organization ahead of the love and natural affection that you SHOULD feel for your flesh and blood.
I love you
I'm glad that manipulative stuff doesn't sway you. Critical thinking skills are quite useful, aren't they?
My mother asked me once why I wouldn't go back to the KH. I said, "I don't believe any of it. I don't believe the bible." She asked if I would ever change my mind and I said, "no point in discussing it, mom. I won't change my mind."
Of course, my mother practiced avoidance of problems to a great degree. She simply never mentioned it again and we went on as before.
You're getting the full drama, aren't you? And you notice how throughout the letter she's the good guy and you and your wife are the bad guys? She even played the "I gave birth to you" card.
She even played the "I gave birth to you" card.
I dropped My Drawers and had Sex!.. Ohh Gawd!!..Next you`ll Show Me where..
Now You Owe Me!!.. I Popped Out!..
........................... 
...OUTLAW
