They have always been teaching the same "crap" there’s nothing new there -- yes the system is more "stressed" today because of classroom size, but the curriculums are the same. What is different is that we expect the teacher to teach our children without any parental support (in fact it's largely the opposite). Americans collectively treat the school system as a "free babysitter". This is not the way to encourage our youth. An interesting statistic shows that even Utah with its excessively burdened education system ($ in allocation per student is one of the worst in the nation) has some of the best students. The real reason isn't the school system, but parent's involvement in the kids’ education. That to me means that "edication is what you make of it"...
Scary Stuff
by Farkel 93 Replies latest jw friends
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Resistance is Futile
Farkel, where did you get the statistics in your opening post from? Was that the complete list of questions included in the survey, or were the questions the students did well on left off your final list?
I'm having a tough time finding your original source. I don't want to seem too skeptical, just want to confirm for myself that you didn't actually make up those stats.
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Resistance is Futile
Anyone who knows academia knows that those who graduate from the Universities and go into teaching are are the bottom-of-the-barrel of the college graduates.
I find this statement offensive and counterproductive. If we want to have a serious discussion about ways to improve education than we need to stop with the childish teacher bashing.
I'm going to have to call bullsh*t on your statement as well. Do you have any evidence at all that the average GPA of teachers is significantly lower than other graduates? Did you just make that up? If you did, it certainly doesn't reflect well on your credibility. It also raises serious issues about your objectivity on the topic of education.
A brief google search shows that there is strong evidence to disprove your claim.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37241878/5-hardest-and-easiest-college-majors-by-gpas/
5 Highest Grade Point Averages
- Education - 3.36 GPA
- Language - 3.34 GPA
- English - 3.33 GPA
- Music - 3.30 GPA
- Religion - 3.22 GPA
Of course anyone with basic critical thinking skills would realize that perhaps GPA isn't the best indicator of intelligence. There may be lurking variables skewing GPA. For example the Chemistry Majors who have on average a lower GPA might not be intellectually inferior, but instead have tougher classes. So an IQ test comparison would probably be the most scientific way to test your claim. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't have any actual facts to support your opinion in that area either?
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skeeter1
Yeah, yeah, but ask them about Minecraft.
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darthfader
LHG, Yes I can, I rarely use it (the only time I use it is when handwriting checks) and my children use it even less. My wife enjoys the tactile process of writing and spends a lot of time with pencils/pens for her artwork.
Cursive was developed in order to communicate faster (without having to lift the pen from paper). Today, we communicate largely electronically - so typing has become the key (pun intended) means to get "words from our head" onto/into paper/computers.
Cursive = Penmanship Latin...
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LongHairGal
darthfader:
I agree, it is like penmanship latin. The problem is, as I mentioned, if a person does not learn it, then they can't read somebody else's.
It is interesting that you point out that we communicate electronically. Well, I work in an office. We communicate as much on paper as we do electronically. And, yes, typewriters are still in use and needed occasionally. Computers didn't do away with that either, contrary to popular opinion.
I have run into many people who don't want to be bothered with things that equate to what you call "penmanship latin" (grammar, etc.) They need short-cuts because their life is so hectic.
It is just the way of the world. 'Nuf said.
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Farkel
Vm44,
I respect you immensely, but I disagree with this statement:
:George Washington was actually the Eighth President of the United States.
The United States of America came into being in 1789. At that time George Washington was elected unanimously as President. Who were the 7 people who preceded him at that time, then?
Resistence is futile:
You said this:
: 'm going to have to call bullsh*t on your statement as well. Do you have any evidence at all that the average GPA of teachers is significantly lower than other graduates?
But that is not what I argued. In fact, you quoted what I argued:
::Anyone who knows academia knows that those who graduate from the Universities and go into teaching are are the bottom-of-the-barrel of the college graduates.
Bottom-of-the-barrel does not necessarily mean GPA's as you implied with your straw man argument. It can and does also mean those who take breezy classes and lots of liberal arts classes, too. They can score well in those classes, but that does not mean they are well educated as those who take much tougher ones. I have several friends who are professors, both of whom have taught at major universities, including Princeton, UCLA, and UC Berkely. They were the ones who told me this from their first hand experience. Yes, it is anecdotal, but they had no axe to grind, because they were educators, too.
Besides, if educators are better than I suggested and as good as you implied, why, in all of my schooling (when I good a GOOD primary education) can I only recall 3 of them as memorable and discard the rest of them as terrible or at best, mediocre)? What is YOUR experience growing up? Everyone I have spoken to about this subject has an experience similar to mine.
Farkel
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Berengaria
It can and does also mean those who take breezy classes and lots of liberal arts classes, too. They can score well in those classes, but that does not mean they are well educated as those who take much tougher ones.
You may be surprised to know that there are "required" classes in order to achieve a degree. Basket weaving isn't one of them.
I have several friends who are professors, both of whom have taught at major universities, including Princeton, UCLA, and UC Berkely.
Both is ...... two? Several is more???
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Resistance is Futile
Farkel, where did you get the statistics in your opening post from? Was that the complete list of questions included in the survey, or were the questions the students did well on left off your final list?
I find it very interesting that you won't say where your source came from. Did you make up those statistics?
I have several friends who are professors, both of whom have taught at major universities, including Princeton, UCLA, and UC Berkely. They were the ones who told me this from their first hand experience. Yes, it is anecdotal, but they had no axe to grind, because they were educators, too.
I'm going to have to call bullsh*t on that claim as well. I can make up friends too. Let's just say that my imaginary friends that teach at prestigious universities say the exact opposite of your imaginary friends. Where does that leave us now? Oh yeah, looking for real facts or evidence.
Do you have any actual evidence that educators are, using your vague term, "bottom of the barrel"? SAT scores, IQ tests?
Besides, if educators are better than I suggested and as good as you implied, why, in all of my schooling (when I good a GOOD primary education) can I only recall 3 of them as memorable and discard the rest of them as terrible or at best, mediocre)? What is YOUR experience growing up? Everyone I have spoken to about this subject has an experience similar to mine.
First off, I never implied educators were any more intelligent than the average person. Go back and read what I wrote. Just because I'm challenging you to produce real evidence to support your thesis doesn't mean I therefore must believe the opposite of what you're postulating. And are you seriously asking me to give you anecdotes from my life ? Ha-Ha
Anybody else see the sad irony in someone that's seemingly unclear on the important distinction between anecdotes and actual scientific evidence, starting a thread denigrating the intellectual capabilities of an entire segment of the population? Tell me I'm not the only one that finds that amusing.
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Berengaria
Besides, if educators are better than I suggested and as good as you implied, why, in all of my schooling (when I good a GOOD primary education) can I only recall 3 of them as memorable and discard the rest of them as terrible or at best, mediocre)? What is YOUR experience growing up? Everyone I have spoken to about this subject has an experience similar to mine.
Farkel
Well why not explore that notion without bias? Unless you are 150 years old, it probably doesn't have a damn thing to do with Unions.
Why do good teachers need to be memorable? That's like saying all good actors must be stars. Who knows why we remember certain teachers? Teachers today deal with far more daunting conditions than when you were a pup Farkel.
Funding IS an issue, respect for the profession is another. The anti education President Ronald Reagan did not help. Neither has any of the funding legislation that ties funding to test performance. Teachers are so busy teaching to the test, they have little time to know the student and actually teach.
It's a complex issue, and won't be readily resolved with all the partisan rhetoric and snark.