Punky you have a PM.
I lovethe TATT - Welcome.
Punky you have a PM.
I lovethe TATT - Welcome.
punk , can't really say that I know how you feel , never had to wake up to TTATT . I have had some rotten circumstances in my life , breast cancer ,me , and losing a son to cancer when he was 25 (10 years ago now ) so I can say that I know that bloody miserable feeling ! We Brits are funny about cissy stuff like therapy , stiff upper lip what !
I was a Christian before my troubles and , perhaps you won't understand, still am . Not to say though that I didn't go through a bloody awful patch myself .Would you be offended if I prayed for you ? Tell the truth now , I won't mind being told to bog off .
I do know that fear that you will never be happy again , but I do now smile and dance round (badly ) to the radio , much to the disgust of my grandaughter !!!!
jhine - I'm sorry you've had sorrows including the loss of a son. I don't know how parents cope with that one.
If you want to pray for me I'm not offended. I think it's rather kind of you. I have no faith left though.
When I left the JWs I went to church but after experiencing the break up of my family I no longer believe there is a superior being watching over me.
LEarning the truth about the cult blows one right out of the water.
Same thing is happening to me also Punk .
Hang in there
Quite honestly no matter what you say and how convincing you are people who are trapped in won't see it. My husband told me that even if I had facts about the organization that he didn't want to hear anything other than what was printed. I spoke to him on blood and the UN and while he knew nothing about the UN affiliation, he still took the WT's side 100%.
I said if you are willing to DIE for a religion wouldn't you want to know the full story and have the facts? He said no, and that he knows enough of what he needs to know.
So don't give up but don't expect your relatives to see where you are coming from. Its unfortunate but they are heavily controlled. I know how frustrated you must feel.
@ Giordano: I will start another thread where I will share my story so far. At least ONE person (who yesterday blocked me of Facebook) said EXACTLY your words... "It is a way of life for me, and please stop talking to me about this topic (Romans 10:11-14), because I am afraid of getting doubts"
@LostGeneration: Gotta hand it to the JW's, they have made an insanely good system of keeping people in the dark. First reaction on learning TTATT is, for most people, ANGER... so the JW's write that apostates are ANGRY people... and it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy (ironically, the only one of theirs that has been fulfilled LOL)... but I want to really save my family and as many of my friends as possible... so like I said, I will need as much advice as possible on the best way to do it (even though I know that I have a HUGE chance at failing, I will try anyways)... About competing with the WT's false promise, you are right, it will be hard for my friends in third-world countries to accept it (I have lots of friends in Latin-American countries).... also another problem for most of my friends is that the key info to know the TATT is in ENGLISH in old mags... =(
@Londo111, MrFlipper: Thank you for your words of advice. As of right now, I have not read them (have a lot of stuff that I have to do), but I will do it ASAP. Agreed that I should not spill out all I know.
@LisaRose, Black Sheep, nuggett: You are all so right... I have been free for so little, and have so little experience with TTATT, that I am doing everything wrong... the TATT at first broke my heart... and now it's heartbreaking to see so many people who can have a relatively happy life wasting it for a falsehood. It is in this interest that I wanted to share it, but it has to be shared in the best manner possible (and I say the best because there is no silver bullet, like Londo111 said)... I must use the little time that I have left (weeks, maybe months if I am lucky before someone of the ones I have told (I think it is 5 people) decides to go to the elders)... to best approach the matter, if I decide to approach it at all. It is a very scary and nerve-racking experience, only to see the typical reactions...
What you all said, in essence, is that I should ASK QUESTIONS instead of TELLING THEM ANSWERS... Please send questions that would increase cognitive dissonance but in a way that does not scream "apostate"!!
I should know... I am a salesperson, and I have been "listing features" instead of asking questions to get the client to reach the conclusion. I am not pushing the "pain points"... (God forgive me if wrong) but who cares, really, about doctrine? If Jesus is God or not? If he died on the cross or a stake? What DOES matter to people is the blood issue, who they marry, what sex they will have when married, higher education, shunning their own families... those things!
I should know... of all the conversations I have had with my dad, the one that really stuck with him was me telling him, "Suppose you pass away, and I am disfellowshipped and my mom isn't. I would NOT go to your funeral." He asked me, "why?" I told him, "Imagine the HUMILLIATION!! Your father is dead, in front of you, and no one gives you even ONE F.... word of consolation!! Would you go?"... He was speechless, but I know he thought about it a lot... cause right after that he started hearing me out with a lot less disagreement.
So many posts!! I will try to answer the rest when I have more time!
THANK YOU SOOOO VERY MUCH TO EVERYONE!! I DON'T KNOW YOU BUT I FEEL THE LOVE!!
Here are a few questions I came up with to help others to think.
If you know someone who prides himself on his research skills, you could ask him to help you. For example, you could say that you are researching about earthquakes and can't find proof that they are increasing, and could he help you. He will not be able to find it either, because earthquake s are not increasing.
You could say that someone you met asked you about the 1975 prediction, and you want to prove to them that the Watchtower did not predict the end in 75, but you found something that shows they did and are confused by it.
You could ask someone what they will do if Armageddon doesn't come, did they have a plan B. If they say of course not, because they trust in Jehovah, you can back pedal and agree you do too. Otherwise you can expand on the plan B idea, get them thinking.
There are so many areas where it's very easy to prove the dubs wrong, the trick is not to appear to be apostate, just earnestly looking for answers. It's not easy, but you are right in that you have a unique opportunity to open people's eyes a bit before you go, so good luck.
The reason I want to tell the TATT is that I really feel a horrible guilt, a horrible shame and like you said, a "fire" inside me that just wants to scream WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
That is exactly what what will give the game away to the trooo believer JWs that you are an APOSTATE and are not to be listened to.
If you want to get your family out, you will have to ask questions to make them think, & ask those questions in such a way that they don't feel threatened by you, & feel that they really want to have sensible answers for you. Just spitting out what you know will just frighten them off you, so get cunning.
You have to find a way around every trap the WT set for apostates wanting to save their families from them. Consider keeping up the facade of being a trooo believer JW until you are the last one of your family to leave.
You asked about ideas for questions...
Questions that might get them thinking:
Example: Get out your Bible Story book. Look at the horrid picture of Pharoah's army and all his horses being drowned. Look at the "godly" people, the Israelites. Why are they smiling??? Why are they smiling and even laughing at this scene of destruction when the Bible clearly says "Jehovah himself takes no delight in the death of the wicked one?"
Who wrote this book of Bible Stories? Oh yes, men who don't even have children….(oops, sorry, not quite true. Only ONE man on the GB has a child!)
Other example: Is underlining a sentence in a magazine really something that God approves of? Is it really a sin or bad thing if we fail to do this? Did the early Christians have to do all this pre-studying and meeting attendance?
What was the main theme of the New Testament (sorry, "Greek Scriptures"). Did Jesus tell us about doctrines and so forth as the main focus of his teaching? What did Jesus really tell people to DO? (Answer: Love God and Love your Neighbor! That was it!! He then demonstrated ways for us to do this!)
You could ask what Jesus meant when he said to feed people, to give them food if they are hungry, clothes if they are unclothed, etc. (Witnesses will say this only applies in a *spiritual* sense!! Maybe go further on thoughts like that… like why did the early Christian congregations take up donations to help each other? Why did the disciples suppose Judas had gone out to give some money to the poor? Why did Paul say he was EAGER to help the poor, after he met with the older men in Jerusalem, and that was the MAIN thing those older men were concerned about -- see Galations! Paul said that the older men in Jerusalem were more concerned that he should be making some gift to the poor, a thing he was already EAGER to do!)
What is this all about, counting hours in field service? Did Paul count his hours? When the Bible says to be generous, ready to share, not even keep accounts of the rights and wrongs, why do we keep our field service time accurate to the now-15 minute?
There are so many little questions you could try to ask, carefully, and when it seems appropriate… direct attention to the BIBLE because it so often and frequently TOTALLY CONTRADICTS what the WTS says.
And please do read some off Steve Haasen's stuff! Very helpful. :)