Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • LostGeneration

    I need help, though, getting my relatives out of the WT!! Even if it takes me months!!

    This statement alone tells me you are being way too aggressive. Accept right here and now that your relatives will probably NEVER leave the WTS. If they do, it will take YEARS in most cases, if not longer.

    The WT offers paradise earth with a petting zoo along with fruit platters for all of eternity. Can you compete with that?

  • flipper

    ILOVETTATT- Welcome to the board ! Nice to have you here. You are right- you need to read Steve Hassan's 3 books explaining mind control and how the WT Society uses fear and guilt to control JW members. He mentions examples of it in Book # 2 & 3. His books helped me immensely

  • villagegirl

    Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz ?

    He dissects every little detail bit by bit. Many still need

    to cling to the idea we have "special Knowledge" Its a cozy

    cocoon of what they dilusionally believe is some kind of "safety"

    The idea "we know things" other people do not and that to question

    anything the WT says is "dangerous" the fear factor is enormous and the

    punishments for questioning or "independent thinking" are absolute banishment.

    If you have family, or work for jw's or have to be cautious or have relatives

    who will shun you, proceed with caution. Free yourself from within

    and find some way to exit with the least trauma.

    Resistance is futile in the Borg.

  • nugget

    People have to be in the right place mentally to hear what you are trying to tell them. Otherwise cult programming rasserts itselft and they just repeat the same old platitudes and are reassured again.

    Try to connect to the authentic person rather than talk about doctrine. Ask if they were not in the organisation what might they have done, what career may they have pursued etc

    Talk to them about other high control groups, the techniques they use etc.

    Look at threads here where people have successfully engaged with witnesses and the tools they have used.

    If they mention doctrine to you ask them to explain it. Don't tell them stuff ask them to explain stuff to you. Don't let them gloss over the facts or uncomfortable truths ask them to provide evidence to you.

  • ABibleStudent

    Welcome ILoveTTATT, DITTO what Black Sheep wrote. Your first mistake is telling JWs about TTATT. Your second mistake is not reading Steve Hassan's books to help you discover your hidden WTBTS phobias, as well as, to learn how to help others to critically think for themselves. If you don't have time to read Steve Hassan's books, watch the videos that I provide links to below. Please remember that TTATT is more about critically thinking for yourself instead of leaving the WTBTS.

    I would recommend that you do the following to help you make your plan(s) to fade from the WTBTS, and, if possible, help other JWs, who you love to critically think for themselves.:

    • Post as much as possible on JWN to either vent your frustrations and to ask for help about specific points of your plan. It is better to vent your frustrations on JWN then to JWs.
    • Visit websites such as,, and, and to name a few to research the WTBTS's history and changes in doctrines.
    • Visit Steve Hassan's website to learn more about the BITE control techniques that the WTBTS does use and how to overcome them. If you cannot afford to purchase Steve Hassan's book "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs" in an ebook format, see if you can either checkout his books at the library or at least watch the following two videos of Steve Hassan at least twice: "Steve Hassan explains SIA method to rescue loved ones from unhealthy situations (2003)" and "Steve Hassan at NYC Ethical Culture Society February 2013.
    • Make more non-JW friends that you would enjoy spending time with. By the way where do you live? When you leave the WTBTS you will need a social network to help fill the void of JWs who will be shunning you.
    • Only ask simple questions to help JWs to critically think for themselves. Reading Steve Hassan's books and posting on JWN will help you. Something as simple as saying Hello and is anything wrong to a JW may help them to open up about their doubts and/or use of anti-depressants. All you need to do is help them to focus on what is causing them problems and suggesting that they use the internet to search for key phrases. I would select key phrases that might help them to discovery a JW support forum.
    • Ask JWs to do fun things with you, to do fun things with non-JWs, and/or to learn about topics that will take a lot of time away from attending WTBTS meetings and reading WTBTS's propaganda. A very time comsuming topic to learn and one that will help you and your JW friends later in life is to learn about investing. If you lived in the USA, I would recommend going to the TD Ameritrade website and learn how to use ThinkorSwim to learn more about investing.
    • Send JWs who you know anonymous emails like I wrote about in the thread You’ve Got Mail! TM. Something as simple as sending highlighted WTBTS propaganda that you can find links for such as in the thread ROLE REVERSAL: PLACING 1969 AWAKE WITH JW'S MANNING THE NEW PORTABLE LITERATURE DISPLAYS may help JWs to wonder how soon is soon.

    Best of wishes of you fading from the WTBTS and helping others to critically think for themselves.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,


  • ILoveTTATT

    Hi all!

    Thanks for your comments!! It is soooo ironic that "apostates" are actually such loving people!! Just look at yourselves!! People helping a total stranger like me... we have all been hurt by the WT, it is an awesome thing that this forum exists!


    The reason I want to tell the TATT is that I really feel a horrible guilt, a horrible shame and like you said, a "fire" inside me that just wants to scream WAKE UP PEOPLE!! I truly feel for the people whose lives are affected by it, going from the worst effects such as death from the blood issue, to relatively minor such as passing some embarrasment because of preaching. Shunning, the blood issue, restricting who you marry, restricting higher education, I think those are some of the more life-altering doctrines of JW's. I know that I am getting it all wrong (trying in the wrong ways to help people I love see TTATT), I have just realized how strong the mind control is, and it is absolutely scary to see people act like zombies... hard proof does not really dissuade them (they are stunned, they think for a nanosecond, and then they stop thinking). The one who I really want to "save" is my father. My mother is totally lost, she is insanely hardcore JW...

    1. I just thought that one of the best ways to persuade a JW was by showing them that the NT has been changed, that in essence the JW's state they do not believe in the NT because all the manuscripts are corrupt... you would think that at least this would make them think since most JW's and most Christians respect the Bible and (should, at least) believe that not a word should be added or removed, no matter if it is YHWH. I truly believe that reading the NT without all the 237 times "Jehovah" appears leads you to a totally different "Lord Jesus"... and here is where I get stuck with JW's because I am attacking a MAJOR doctrine of anti-trinity or anti-binitarianism.

    2. The blood doctrine was the hardest thing for my father to accept. He spent years studying and would not come in because he feared having to face a decision of the blood doctrine. Now, however, he accepts it entirely. I think this would be an easier angle of attack, since, like you said, there is way more ammo for this one.

    3. I know, who cares but JW's? However, there is much evidence that Jesus in fact died on a T-shaped cross, including my favorite which is the "Staurogram", it appears in the oldest manuscripts (p45, p66, p75) as a "Nomina Sacra"... if "stauros" starts with an S and ends with an S, logically an abbreviation such as the "Nomina Sacra" would be something like SS... but it is a T with the ρ (rho) on top... looking very much like a body on a cross... anyways, the reason for it being "an angle to use against JW's" is that it is in a manuscript, at some point the NWT committe must have seen this, but for obvious reasons never told the R&F. It's very damning of that doctrine.

    4. With regards to the nature of Jesus/God, it really doesn't matter since I do not believe fully in the Bible anyways (agnostic like I said), all that I am saying is that a plain, simple reading of the NT without "Jehovah" inserted here and there will more likely end you with the conclusion "Jesus is God" than the conclusion "Jesus is NOT God"... that's the way I see it.

    5. Agreed... the only "harmonization" of the texts is to say that both are needed. However, it is a pretty strong contradiction in my books. Romans 3 vs James 2

    6. Dozens of them... the craziest ones are in Chronicles/Kings...

    7. Only if I want to cast doubt on the Bible, yes...

    I know that I cannot take all with me... It's a shame, a sadness, but it is something that I must come to terms with. I have found that I should place the burden of proof on THEM and not just spew out conclusions that I have reached with months of research. It will take massive doses of self-control. Can you give me samples of questions I should ask?



    To the rest... I will try to answer tomorrow. I am tired now...

  • jhine

    I love TTATT ,

    on the subject of Trinity I suggest reading the Early Church Fathers , Tertullian , Justyn Martyr , etc ,all who pre- date the Nicene Creed . Lots online about their works . NOT what is in the " Should you Believe " booklet .

    Faith or works , I think that the Bible is clear , we are saved FOR good works prepared for us beforehand , we can do nothing to earn our salvation .

  • punkofnice

    Welcome TTATTyhead

    What really scares the crap out of me is the way people respond any time that I try and tell them TTATT

    Yeah. Rotten aint it?!

    They remind me of when you're having a lovely dream and you wake up yet attempt to go back into the dream to enjoy the fantasy rather than face the less pleasant reality.

    Many will never wake up despite them being good thinking people. They are happier to remain in the Matrix.

    Reality can be very hard to bear. No eternal life, just oblivion and non entity. No god above. We are all alone without a saviour. We WILL die, it's just when and how. We WON'T see our dead loved ones again..........and of course.........all those years wasted on a delusion.

  • jhine

    Gosh punk , is it being so cheerful that keeps you going ?

  • punkofnice

    jhine - Don't mind me I've just had enough. The shock of waking up to the real truth about life and added circumstances has me on a back foot.

    I would love to be cheerful again but as it is my family is broken and I've spent more than 50 years in the watchtower(R) delusion..........I'm tired of life mate. Tired of bloody life and scum ridden people I see all around my city!

    As a stubborn Brit I don't go for the therapy thing. I can't afford private treatment and the NHS Doctors just dish out happy pills......not my style.

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