Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • caliber

    motivation must come from within ..without desire or reward there is no incentive to listen or change

    Sharing your thoughts about TTATT with people who are not ready for it usually fails....even your best friends and closest family will not engage past a point

    Facts do not matter when confronted with the power of belief. ~~~LostGeneration

    Usually personal injury or injustice starts people thinking... but to pull the rug out and leave them floundering

    leads to fear and uncertainty.

    Start with what the WT has taken away from them... not what it has given them

    The WT offers paradise earth with a petting zoo along with fruit platters for all of eternity ~~~.LostGeneration

    what is your carrot ?

    We are blessed with tons of different ideas or talents, we are pressured by the WT that you get "just pick one"

  • ILoveTTATT

    I have an idea!

    Cognitive Dissonance, for the most part, must be increased slowly. There are many ways, but we must be incredibly clever about it, to increase it. The mental attacks must be, IMHO, made in the form of "I am telling John so that Larry understands"... or in the Nathan-David example where David condemned the man on the analogy, thereby condemning himself.

    Here's some ammo, and I want you all to help me brainstorm a lot more!! I already have some great ideas from others, keep them coming!

    Movies like: Oblivion, Side Effects, any movie where the character suffers a lot because of some truth that hidden... analyze these with a JW... questions such as, wasn't it weird how the character never found out the truth because he was too afraid of going to the "radiation zone"?

    Books like George Orwell's 1984, I can't remember if it was a book or a short story but while learning TTATT I immediately remembered the Farm... I think it was Orwell too...

    Another would be showing them an article about people denying the Holocaust and how ridiculous it is, an article that would be "gold" would be one where a "scholar" denies it and tries to pass off "proof" that it didn't happen. If he/she uses the same JW techniques, that would be pure gold!!



  • jgnat

    Hi, I'd like to expand your goal somewhat. Change it from getting your loved-ones "out" (Which is out of your control anyways. There's the small matter of free will) to celebrating and encouraging their right to free thought. Independent thinkers will eventually find their own way "out", which may very well be different than yours.

    Let go of the guilt. Give up the emoting. This is not about you. Spend some moments living in the skin of those you love most, and do your best to see things from their point of view.

    I have found it most helpful, as Steve Hassan teaches, to learn to distinguish between the natural person and the put-on cult personality we all know and love. The natural person is unique and is the one you need to understand. The cult personality? Meh. You can see their faces on any page of the magazines. They are paper-thin and shallow. Don't waste your breath.

  • ILoveTTATT

    From Wikipedia regarding Holocaust deniers, for example:

    Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood (also known as Richard Verrall ). The Supreme Court of Canada found in 1992 that the book "misrepresented the work of historians, misquoted witnesses, fabricated evidence, and cited non-existent authorities."

    Sounds very much like the WT

  • ILoveTTATT

    @jgnat: Thanks for the advice. I understand the matter of free will, but I doubt that anyone who is fully awakened to TTATT will actually stay. If they stay, it is for other reasons such as still wanting to talk to their family, etc... The only "success" is to get my entire nuclear family out, which I have an infinitesimally small chance of achieving... but I will try nonetheless... If I don't get my entire nuclear family out, then perhaps I will have done more damage than good... since I will have, effectively, split up the family (even though it was in reality JW doctrine)... On the other hand, I feel we have a moral right to TRY at least and tell the people!! Not in a direct fashion, but in a very subtle and indirect and slow fashion...

    With much patience, love, and understanding, I will be lucky to have a 1% chance to succeed. But I will, if I am alive, I will definitely, 100%, try with the best of my ability!!


  • ABibleStudent

    Hi ILoveTTATT, Although I agree with other posters about setting your goal to help your JW family members to think critically for themselves, I do like that you are very passionate about getting all of your JW family out. Have you considered channeling more of your passion into writing to your polictical representatives about changing tax exempt status for organizations like the WTBTS and your personal experiences? If you were the WTBTS would you make doctrine and policy changes to keep your full tax exempt status, or would you just whip the R&F to do more to make up the deficit? Anytime the WTBTS makes life harder for R&F JWs more JWs will awaken to TTATT.

    If you live in the USA, you could write to your politicians to add additional requirements for all non-profit organizations. Currently USA tax laws prohibit donations to organizations like the Unification Church to be 100% deductible because the money supports the lavish lifestyle of the top leadership (Rev Moon before he died) and to organizations that support terrorism being deductible (and the organization will loses its tax exempt status); and non-profit organizations must not discriminate based on specific criteria such as race or lose their tax exempt status. If enough people write to politicians about changing the tax laws, may be the politicians would make needed changes given the austere fiscal environment.

    I would like to see that all non-profit organizations (not just the religious ones) be required to:

    • Promote that all members must report violent crimes such as child abuse/molestation first to local law enforcement instead of to the legal department and prohibit an organization's leadership from doing investigations that might interfere with local law enforcement investigations, and institute sensible child protection policies such as doing back-ground checks on members who supervise organizationally promoted activities with children.
    • Promote understanding and compromise with people of different races, beliefs, sexual orientation, etc and must not promote shunning/marking to its members. Organizations would still be allowed to terminate a person's membership in the organization, but not to require that its other members must shun that person.
    • Spend at least 35% of all donations doing charitable acts for non-members that improve people's lives such as in education/training, health-care, housing, food, researching medical advancements that cure diseases, etc. to reduce government spending from supporting those types of activities.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,


  • problemaddict

    Hey ILY,

    Thanks for the earlier response. I think the overall thrust of what I was maybe trying to convey, was that you don't want to start with somethign contentious, or "Christendom" for someone just to turn off their brain even moreso. Is there compelling evidence to suggest Jesus was divine in some odd way via scripture? Yes. Is there evidence to combat that and have them be two seperate people? Yes. People have been debating this for a long time. Someone could easily find things to support either view. So its net loss when you are talkign abotu your goals. Same with the cross. i think it is entirely possible Jesus was crucified, but I also think its possible it was an upright pole. I think there are reasons for each. What i KNOW, is that i wasn't there and can't be sure. So who cares. ;)

    I would stick to things uniquely ours. Small and large. Blood is a big one. I got alot of help here on that. PM me and I can share an e mail I sent to a CO friend of mine. He never responded, and I have not been turned in. Who knows what is happening. There is a thread I received interesting nuggets on. Advocating for free thought like jgnat said, fits in perfect with this. The hyposcricy is evident.

    I had a conversation with a friend where they admitted it was weird, and they kind of told me they jsut wanted to not think about it.

    Here is how it went after we were talking for a while. "Can you explain the transition to allowing blood fractions for me?" "Ok, well what about in 1999, could someone be disfellowshipped or die in 1999 for what was allowed a year later?" Do you think Jehovah EVER considered blood fraction to be a sin?"

    These are open ended and part of a larger conversation. There is no magic question. Just keep the questions aimed at getting them to think for themselves. They may not end up thinking like you, but at least they will be thinking. :)

    Child abuse policy seems woefull, but I have not gotten very far with that for some reason. Even with parents. Its very odd.

    The most recent adjustments in misunderstanding. Even the concept of new light altogether can be a good one.

    Basically the fall back is always the same thing. Look at the growth. (there isn't very much). Who else is doign the preaching work (lots of people or nobody depending on your definition). People are streaming to the mountain fo Jehovah in the last days like Micah 4 says. (BS)

  • ILoveTTATT

    I want to PM someone, but I cannot!! I click on the mail icon and I can't for the life of me see where the "send a new message" button is!! Also, how can I keep track of replies to threads I have posted on? I have commented on so many and then have lost track of which one it was... and I am curious as to other replies...

    Yes, I am a very passionate person... A little too much, this is a problem for me I know U.U

    No, I do not live in the US... I cannot get my mom to think for herself, is it me or women (please, I do not mean to be mysoginistic) are an easier prey for the WTS? It seems like the men I have told TTATT to have a much easier time absorbing it than women... maybe because of the feelings/logical idea. (Again, NOT saying that there aren't any very smart women out there, like Barbara)... I am just saying my 2c...

    My mom believes in ANY, and I mean ANY BS that ANYONE tells her, and anytime I help her see the truth about any other subject that is not religious, she does not believe me until like 5 other true experts tell her exactly the same thing I had been saying... My mother does not THINK, she accepts BS, and with that pattern, it will be close to impossible to make her see TTATT...

    I have 10 times the amount of work to do with my mom than with my dad. My dad will much more easily accept TTATT...

    Thanks all!

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Too much passion is a problem. Settle down. Take it easy. STFU. Your Dubs don't work to your timetable.

    Once cornered, it becomes clear that my Dubs really don't give a shit about reality, truth, evidence, the Bible, whatever. They give lip service to all of that while they have control of the conversation, but when they get in the shit they just resort to trashing my character as a non-believer/apostate/whatever to pretend that they don't have to think about what I said, or answer my questions.

    Forget having a barrage of ammunition. That just ID's you as the enemy. Pick ONE question that will bother THEM _______ NOT YOU, and stick with it. Never change the subject, never let them change the subject, never let tem get away with bad grammar or logic, never let them think you might have forgotten that they owe you a very good answer to a very good question.

    Make sure it was a good question.

    Jeremiah 25:12

  • ILoveTTATT

    Thanks all!! I have learnt a lot from the past couple of months... and now I am doing much better!! I can go to the meetings and have things go through one ear and out the other, I am reverse-witnessing quite effectively and anonymously. The only open reverse-witnessing I do is with my father, and we discuss the blood issue. He is shocked and I think I broke the chains for him...

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