Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • ILoveTTATT
    ILoveTTATT

    Ok so to start... I am still an active JW... but only because I cannot get out yet... I am slowly planning to get out...

    I should really read Hassan's Cult Control book... It seems like I am getting everything wrong in trying to help the people I know to know TTATT.

    So I will need your help, all of you dear people.

    My current, actual beliefs are pretty much agnostic... no belief in any particular dogma, but I believe there is a higher power out there...

    There are so many things on my mind... for example,

    1. The fact that no NT manuscript contains the name "Jehovah"

    2. The blood doctrine

    3. Whether Jesus died on a cross (as we know it) or not.

    4. I don't buy either the Trinity or Unitarianism... I think that the Bible has evidence for both parties to endlessly debate this... at the very least, I think that the Bible does go for Jesus being God...

    5. Salvation by grace or by works... again both sides can debate this endlessly...

    6. Contradictions in the Bible

    7. Why the Septuagint is accepted in some religions and just the Masoretic in others... Masoretic is 9th century, whereas it has been shown that the Septuagint was quoted by Paul, for example... Why was it accepted by Paul and others but rejected by most Christians today?

    etc etc...

    What really scares the crap out of me is the way people respond any time that I try and tell them TTATT... all have agreed to keep the conversation private, most listen to me, but later they are told one little thing and they believe the WT again!!

    Mind control is sooooo frustrating!!

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Welcome IloveTTATT. Love the name.

    There are still some of us on here that believe in a higher power. After months and months of heavy research Hubby & I have come to the conclusion that man has tampered with the bible, but the basic, general spirit still gets thru. I started reading some of the 'rejected' text, i.e: Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, Gospel of Thomas, etc http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

    Which I have found enlightening and give a little more of the puzzle pieces. The name Jehovah & Jesus are invented names, but their true pronunciations can be found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wiBtYITrxM

    Now that your mind is free, enjoy your journey and peace be with you. www.jwfacts is very helpful also.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Welcome ILT. You are among friends. Try to keep that fire inside a bit. Direct assault will just get someones red flag to go off, and end up causing problems for you. Here are a few thoughts.....on your thoughts.

    1. The fact that no NT manuscript contains the name "Jehovah"

    The Jehovah controversy is not as dead and gone as people would believe. Jah could be the undisputed name of God for example. NWT uses the "J" texts to spuriously translate in some areas, and take authority where the NT quotes from the old. I have no problem with the latter. In fact I thinkt here are some compelling reasons to think theat Jehovah could be accurate. That being said, its not really God who i have a problem with, just those claiming exclusive rights to his favor so to speak. This might be a dead end for a reasoning with a JW.

    2. The blood doctrine

    This is a doctrine there is TONS of ammunition against. It is indefensible. Hypocricy, death, and ridiculousness around every corner. This might be a good place to go with people. But since it is considered "core", it could set off those flags. I try to always say that it should be a conscious decision not enforced through disfellowshipping, rather than they are just imbiciles for teaching this, even though that is what i really believe.

    3. Whether Jesus died on a cross (as we know it) or not.

    Who cares.

    4. I don't buy either the Trinity or Unitarianism... I think that the Bible has evidence for both parties to endlessly debate this... at the very least, I think that the Bible does go for Jesus being God...

    Trinitarians and JW's are closer than they think on this. "...the God was divine", is an accepted rendering to JW's of John 1:1 for example. So in what way is Jesus divine? This goes in line with a trinitarian thought oj Jesus and his father both sharing the "nature of God", but being two separate people. I think its hogwash, but honestly are you really going to get anywhere with the trinity and JW's? Nope.

    5. Salvation by grace or by works... again both sides can debate this endlessly...

    Chicken vs egg. It doesn't matter. Once again, biblically speaking one doesn't exist without the other. There is no debate here for reasonable people.

    6. Contradictions in the Bible

    Lots of them. Working through this myself currently.

    7. Why the Septuagint is accepted in some religions and just the Masoretic in others... Masoretic is 9th century, whereas it has been shown that the Septuagint was quoted by Paul, for example... Why was it accepted by Paul and others but rejected by most Christians today?

    Is this something you think will strike a cord with the people in your life you care about?

    If you are looking for something that will ring true to them, focus on the things we INSTINCTIVELY know not to be right, but supress. Blood, shunning of family, secret meeting of elders and hoarding of letters written without your ability to see what is in them, policies that protect the organization but don't smell right, technicalities being adhered to, especially in cases where peoples lives are at stake.

    The list goes on and on. Oh and the nutty history. When it comes down to it, you know your friends best. Try to ease them into it, and ask questions. Don't expect too much. Focus on yourself. You can't take everyone with you, and many of us have learned that the hard way.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Sharing your thoughts about TTATT with people who are not ready for it usually fails....even your best friends and closest family will not engage past a point.

    For your average JW 90% are there because it's a way of life. Being with close friends and family is what it is about. For 10% it is about doctrine.

    Who really questions the flip flops or so called 'new light'?

    The good news is that according to a Pew Survey 67% of born-ins no longer identify as JW'S. The internet is taking a toll.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    Why do you feel the need to share TTATT?

    Facts do not matter when confronted with the power of belief.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Welcome, ILoveTTATT!

    About reading Steve Hassan's books...you took the words at my mouth.

    It is tough to reach out to people under mind control. There's really no silver bullet. The hardest part is having the self control of not spilling everything you know...that usually doesn't end well.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    Welcome, glad you made it here. Perhaps you should focus on your own exit right now, your experiences in trying to help others see TTATT are all too common, it's very, very difficult to get others to look at the evidence objectively, the cult control is so strong. In time, others may remember something you said and see the truth in it, you can hope.

    One thing I found effective is to just ask questions. People who would resist a statement, can sometimes be led to the answer, everyone wants to be right. Really, after I left I realized the evidence was all there, I just had to open my eyes to know I was in a cult.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    You will always get the same response to making statements that scare them, so don't do it.

    Ask a question instead, then shut up and let them do all of the talking.

  • ILoveTTATT
    ILoveTTATT

    Thanks for everything!

    In fact, it was jwfacts.com that started my journey. It suddenly, very suddenly hit me, that the Paradise doctrine is based on so few verses!! This led me to investigate, which led me to that website, and then to the "Jehovah in the NT" debate, etc...

    I am happy to be FREE!! FREEEEEEEE to believe in whatever the .... I want to believe!!

    I agree with you that the Bible has been tampered with... and I want to see it as a "good book", grab the good (love for fellow man, charity, etc) and leave the bad (hate him if he doesn't agree with you)...

    I need help, though, getting my relatives out of the WT!! Even if it takes me months!!

    It seems like they need baby-step-explanations... make them THINK for once!!

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    Be strong. Have some balls.

    Best,

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