How exactly did Paul keep in touch with his network of churches across the empire...

by mP 84 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP
    mP

    How

    Now: How did they know where Paul was? Easy. If you read Paul's letters you will find that, contrary to Acts, Paul spent many months at a time in Corinth. Likely he left Macadonia for Asia Minor to winter that year.

    Next came a major issue. The churches in Galatia. It would seem that after Paul's trip back to Jerusalem and his dispute with Peter that the Jerusalem church wanted to take control of Paul's churches and make them conform to the Mosaic Law.

    mP:

    No letter from paul tells us that of future plans, so how did the churches know where to send their reply or new messages ?

    Macedonia to Corinth is quite a distance, it would take months on foot or quite some time by ship. given there are some overland components, how does one know exactly where Paul is ? Everything took months, what if they sent the message to some city hoping Paul would be there but he hadnt yet made it to that location ? Nobody knows him, so the letter vanishes. The sending church has no idea of this so what do they do ? They probably think Paul is lost or has gone somewhere else which is reaoinsable given he hasnt replied but how do they know ?

  • mP
    mP

    how:

    Paul is released but no by any help from Onesimus! The church in Phillipi bails him out. In return Paul again sends a thank yoou letter to them (Phillipians 4)

    mP:

    But how do the other churches know P is in jail and not at some future city or town ?

    How is a poor man in jail spending thousands on sending messages to all these churches ?

  • mP
    mP

    How

    Paul used his own diciples to deliver letters.

    This model I have just shown where Paul doesn't travel much, uses his own disciples and only undergoes persucution from Jews and Rome (when in Rome at the end) is NOT MY MODEL!

    mP:

    You have only addressed the easy part, where paul is initiating the sending of the message to stationary churches. How to the stationary churchse find a moving Paul ?

    If he has one or two travelling companions to send messages, how does he send more messages when he has no disciples left ? How does timothy find paul back again if paul has moved to the next city or does P wait for Timothy to return ?

    So basically if Paul wants to send 10 messages to 10 different cities, P has to wait a few years whgile Timothy takes his mail to each of the 10 churches and returns. Thats a disaster.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Paul did not wander around. Whenever I read history, people move around. Why are you so invested in a bumbling Paul and idiot Christians? An idiot Paul and Christians with no savvy, prove some point you want to make. Well, I will not agree with you. This thread is way longer than it shouldl be. If you don't want to believe Terry and others, don't believe. This is not the WT. In my considered opinion, you are very wrong.

    Did it happen as it would happen today? Did Paul use email or text messaging? No. Did news travels, were contracts fulfilled, were there sophisticated networks, yes.

  • HowTheBibleWasInvented
    HowTheBibleWasInvented

    LOL... Well when it comes to history anyone can theorize but here are some facts:

    1. I know of no historian that doubts the existance of Paul. If you doubt his existance you then need to explain the undisputed letters in Paul's name addressing real life issues in new, adolecent,mature churches in the actual pre-70CE world as well as countless other issues.

    2. The fact that these churches were started by someone.

    3. The reverse letter that spawned these letters.

    4. The arguments against Paul in Ephesians, Colossians and 1 Clement (And Revelation in a way)

    I recomended a good read in my last post ;)

    Peace.

  • mP
    mP

    BotR

    Paul did not wander around. Whenever I read history, people move around. Why are you so invested in a bumbling Paul and idiot Christians?

    mP:

    I did not mean that he wondered in a drunken stupor, he never presents an agenda or travel plan. He just travels. Given he is supposed to communicating by letter he never mentions where he will be next so the church or friend can reply. We have a dozen letters all from diff places and yet Paul never says i will be in X for Y months then Z for Q months in case y9ou want to reply. So where is his plan so others can find him ?

  • mP
    mP

    BotR

    If you don't want to believe Terry and others, don't believe.

    mP:

    I dont believe Terry because nothing he presented makes sense. Pigeons carrying scrolls, *public* mail systems that didnt exist etc. Something as large as a public mail system shouldbe int he historical record and easy enuff for us to find in historical books, documentaries and so on.

  • mP
    mP

    BotR

    Did news travels, were contracts fulfilled, were there sophisticated networks, yes.

    mP:

    You failed to address how they found a moving Paul. You take the easy option and assume two distant stationary parties. My whole questioning concerns itself with finding a man who is moving about empire. Take the story of Marco Polo, nobody knew where he was and what happened until he returned from his fabulous travel. P may very well have moved about but the problem is communications on the level presented requires the resources of a governor or emperor, nither of which P had or was equivalent too.

  • mP
    mP

    BotR

    f course, if it were truly important, the delivery could be swift. Royalty would receive messages in a few days. Heck, the Aztecs had an elaborate delivery system. Paul's churches had wealthy members who were zealous. Also, the news did not have to come to Paul directly. Cities knew what happened in trading cities. If someone seized power in this country, I would find ways to get messages out. You don't need a formal mail system.

    How do you think the Caesars and the Roman Army knew what was happening?

    How did Egyptians know what happened?

    mP:

    You are comparing emperors, governors who have teams of messengers with ships and horses against a single man with a few friends. Is this really a fair comparison ? Of course one city knew about another, but the problem im question is not messengers between stationary targets but one who moves. Paul is moving from town and city trhoughout the empire. How does a church at one extreme manage to send a message when he is thousands of kilometers and many months of travel away ?

  • mP
    mP

    BotR

    Why is this topic so important? Paul's version is believed by 98% of Christianity. Jews learn Paul's version. Paul invented Christianity, not Jesus. He is even a feminist in some genuine letters. He is not an evil man. The WT is evil when it teaches its lies about Paul. I know.

    mP:

    Im sorry P is a product of his time. His morality is out of date for our times. He tells us that women shouldnt speak in church in a few scriptures. Im not disputing he says some nice things in others, but the problem remains the bad parts are what other evil men select and use as their weapons. Theres also the case of the runaway slave in Philemon. Here he has an opportunity to be a beacon and say something grand and positive for all humanity and condemn slavery. But he doesnt, he says the exact opposite, he tells the slave who has obviously run away because of fear, or violence to go back home to his master ? imagine the same in todays society, imagine a white master in a cong in the 1860s and the black slave runs away and instead of helping him Paul tells him to return to the South ? Would you think less or more of Paul ? Or would you say he is just an another man we can ignore in terms of advice ?

    Please i know slavery was the norm back then, my point is P is not extraordinary in his morality or teachings. This is line of argument is flawed because as i have shown he is just another ordinary man of those times.

    BotR

    Certain verses attributed to Paul used to make me want to vomit.

    mP:

    If the bible says P said it then for our purposes that character did say it. If anyone presents a quote and i can read it then that text is part of what we know about that character. We can only judge his person on what we are given. We cant pretend to ignore one scripture which describes one personal attribute and take another because we like it.

    BotR

    Paul's version is believed by 98% of Christianity

    mP:

    99% of christians have never read the bible and cant even recall basic facts. Most are for all purposes ignorant of bible history or its contents.

    Ive asked many preaching xians, jws etc to name the apostles of jesus and nearly all fail. Ive never asked but im pretty safe to assume that most couldnt even name all the books in the bible, something they should know if they are ging to believe.

    I would not trust 99% of christians for any information about anyting to do with christ or the bible. Almost none can actually point to their book as scriptural proof. It seems pretty dumb to believe in something bcause the bible says so, and yet completely failing when one asks them to highlight the text .

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