How exactly did Paul keep in touch with his network of churches across the empire...

by mP 84 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  Terry

  You still havent solved the problem of how did the concerned believers find Paul when he traveled away ?

  My daughter recently told me she was going to vacation in Alaska in a town of about 45. I didn't write down the address she gave me.

  Internet didn't work up there! I wrote her a short (snail mail) letter and put "In care of Postmaster General" and wrote her name

  and the town name.

  She got the letter!

  mP:

  You are assuming everything works like clockwork. The above exaple only worked because you knew the town, what if 5 years had passed and she was known to be moving about ? Then we have the real problem that there was no postmaster general or post back then.
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  mP

  MP;

  How does a poor man like Paul afford $30 letters to many many churches ?

  Terry

  Was Paul using the Pony Express?

  MP;

  Any similar service requiring meseengers would be costly. The material was costly, hiring people to take said items on a trip taking months is costly. You seem to think everyting kjust works and is cost on a scale similar to our own world. Sending a letter back then would have cost over a months wages. Millionaires or billionaires like Marcion are few and far between.
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  mP

  Terry

  Paul, as an "Apostle" would have access to this network information. They (various congregations) would, in turn, have his whereabouts made known through the "grapevine" network.

  mP:

  Theres has never been such thing as a grapevine network. Thats why the postal system, the telegraph and internet were invented because the old didnt exist or work. Even in recent times information took a long time and often got lost because communication systems were poor.

  Your entire premise is completely flawed and you have no proof for a fraction of any component existing.

  If each city had a congregation had 100-200 people by the time P left and moved to the next place, they would have had to all pay significant donations just to send a single letter. They could hardly afford to continue this every month or at any other frequency. Imagine the letters that would have been generated just for P to provide an update to all congs of his new location.
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  Wasanelder Once

  I'm pretty sure that Ringo delivered all the messages for Paul, he had plenty of time on his hands.
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  John_Mann

  I agree with mP, it's something wrong with all this mail issue.

  Even in down to earth issues (like mail) the bible is very doubtful.

  Maybe Paul did not existed at all too.

  There's no doubt some letters were not written by Paul, so what makes us certain that Paul have existed and written some letter?

  Maybe the only real persons involved in the fabrication of the NT were the ones briefly mentioned in the Paul's letters, like Linus for example.
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  Terry

  We could probably doubt ourselves into non-existence if we put our mind to it.

  The Romans lasted two thousand years and it wasn't from not getting things right.

  I think applying Occam's Razor here makes sense.

  Is it more likely the smooth functioning of empire was made possible by:

  A. Lousy mail service?

  B. Fast and efficient mail service?

  Things we want to be dubious often are.
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  Band on the Run

  I agree with Terry, esp. after reading Domini c Crossan and others. You are accepting the WT view of Paul. He did not make tents all the time. Jesus was supported by wealthy donors. Think of arts patrons. It was a sophisticated world. Commerce existed. Paul may have used tent making to meet and talk about Christ with more people. It would evolve in a more natural flow. Perhaps one day we can ask Paul.
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  mP

  BotR:

  So why did Paul lie and pretend that he was humble and never mentions his wealthy benefactors ? Surely cimpletely ignoring them in his supposedly wide spread letters would bruise their ego and might result in withdrawal of their financial support.

  Im not denying it was a sophisticated and rich world. However you are inventing situations that are never recorded in the bible which mentions many other things. Commerce existed, but commerce especially back then would not send free letters and supply free vellum for Paul to write on.

  Nobody has addressed the problem of finding P with his constant travels every so often.
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  mP

  Terry

  The Romans lasted two thousand years and it wasn't from not getting things right.

  I think applying Occam's Razor here makes sense.

  Is it more likely the smooth functioning of empire was made possible by:

  A. Lousy mail service?

  B. Fast and efficient mail service?

  mP:

  Of course the Romans were great, im not disputing that at all.Sure they were clever, sophisticated and much more. Whatever mail system they had would have been expensive and not affordable for average citizens. Every example you have given for a possible solution involves men at the top of the empire, governors, emperors and other men of enormous wealth.

  Im not doubting there was an efficent communication system in the empire. However you have completely ignored the fact that the example i give was exclusively owned and run for the government. There is no mention of it being a public service that anybody could use.

  The story of Paul is also completely the opposite of what would be required to run a large religioous organisation. At no stage does he acknowledge a wealthy benefactor. Surely given all his salutations he would have mentioned a thanks to warm the ego of the generous one who made it all possible.

  Its not ever day somebody conquers the minds of half an empire on the scale of Pauls ministry. There are few individuals that belong to that club. Given the serious logistical problems isnt the simple answer, aka ORazor the entire thing is a fabrication. Letters are invented to give authority to points of view that the elites in the church wish to support. Mohammads Koran is similar. When he wants another wife, god gives him a vision.

  Half the entire Pauline text are fakes. Every letter is warning the reader about other fake letters.

  Can you tell me why its not simpler to believe that the extraordinary and rediculous claims are simply bullshite ?
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  mP

  BoR

  You are accepting the WT view of Paul. He did not make tents all the time. Jesus was supported by wealthy donors.

  mP:

  Im not accepting the WT view of Paul, im accepting the view that Paul presents in the books we have. If he says in another scripture that somebody gave him lots of money and he used it to advance his preachingwork i would be interested in reading it.

  Surely any other view is pure invention as well. Again why would P lie and presnt a humble view when the truth was the exact opposite. If he lied about this that hardly makes his word an honest one. it makes him a big fat liar from the beginning.