by mP 84 Replies latest watchtower bible
jeffT
Although Roman roads were good and it was not all that difficult to get a message from one place to another it is clear t
mP:
I would like to see you walk around America or the Med delivering messages on foot. Its a tough task especially when you dont know where to go.
Just twenty years ago, we had our NIPOST in my country. Send a letter to a sick relative thru it, and it will be read at the first or second memorial of the person. Send a letter to an expecting parent, and the child would read it when it arrives. Many a-letter were read after the sender had arrived! And Paul is sending and recieving letters at such ease, almost 2000 years ago- another global flood story!
The Pony Express in 1861 could deliver a letter sent from the East Coast of the United States to the West Coast of California in 10 days for a distance
of 3,000 miles of UNpaved roads.
Rome, with its straight flat roadways had no problems with speedy delivery with its relays and organizing strategies.
This:
You havent addressed the problem that Paul was constnatly moving about. he often ran into trouble outside his control and got delayed or side tracked from his original plan.
@Terry
There was no postal system in the ancient Roman Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_publicus
Despite this evidence that the government did supervise the functioning of the network of stations - and, presumably, its development over the centuries, the service was not supplied by a department of state in the same way as (say) the modern Royal Mail in the UK. As Altay Coskun notes in a review of Anne Kolb’s work done in German, [4] the system “simply provided an infrastructure for magistrates and messengers who traveled through the empire. It consisted of thousands of stations placed along the main roads; these had to supply fresh horses, mules, donkeys, and oxen, as well as carts, food, fodder, and accommodation.” Thus, there was no “department of postal service” with employees paid by the emperor. The one sending a missive would have to supply the courier, and the stations had to be supplied out of the resources of the local areas through which the roads passed. As seen in several rescripts and in the correspondence of Trajan and Pliny, the emperor will sometimes pay for the cost of sending an ambassador to Rome along the cursus publicus , particularly in cases where the cause is just.
Just reading that text, it doesnt sound like a cheap public service. Given Pauls self proclaimed limited resources, i dont think he could afford the above. It sounds more like what i was trying to assert previously. That any message systems were sponsored messengers of the powerful and rich.
If we read on, Pauls own narration supports this as there are severl mentions of Paul passing a message via some person or friend.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/16.html
| I am glad of the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus: for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied. | 16:21 The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand. | |
| 16:18 For they have refreshed my spirit and your's: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such. | ||
| 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. | ||
| 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss. |
@Terry
You still havent solved the problem of how did the concerned believers find Paul when he travelled away ? How do you find someone in prison hundreds or thousands of km away ? Is it plausable given the cost of message sending that i just gave, how exactly did Paul contact everybody telling them of his new address ?
Terry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_express
As the Pony Express Mail service existed briefly in 1860 and 1861 there are consequently very few examples of surviving Pony Express mail today. Also contributing to the scarcity of surviving Pony Express mail was the fact that the cost to send a 1/2 ounce letter was $5.00 [26] at the beginning, a costly sum in those days and mostly unaffordable to the general public. By the end period of the Pony Express, the price had dropped to $1.00 per 1/2 ounce. Even the $1.00 rate was considered a lot of money ($26 in 2012 U.S. Dollars) [27] just to mail one letter in those days. As this mail service was also a frontier enterprise, removed from the general population back east, along with the largely unaffordable rates, there are consequently few pieces of surviving Pony Express mail in the hands of collectors and museums today. There are only 250 known examples of Pony Express mail. [19]
mP:
How does a poor man like Paul afford $30 letters to many many churches ? Given that he supposedly established dozens of churches in manyplaces, he would need to send a letter to eah every month. That would amount to tens of thousands in our money a postall bill he could hardly afford. Imagine a CO paying $50K in letter sending to manage the congs in his area. How would he manage out of his own pocket ?
If Paul was the equivalent to a one man bethel, how could he possible afford to send letters to all the congs in a modest sized country like NZ ? Its simply not affordable or physically possible. I havent covered the cost of vellum or their "paper" in those days. I think i saw read somewhere such a sheet would cost about $100. If you read the preparation process its easy to see why such a material was definitely not cheap.
There was no postal system in the ancient Roman Empire.
Semantics. When you read this what do you think it is saying?
( It consisted of thousands of stations placed along the main roads; these had to supply fresh horses, mules, donkeys, and oxen, as well as carts, food, fodder, and accommodation.”)
(Despite this evidence that the government did supervise the functioning of the network of stations - and, presumably, its development over the centuries, the service was not supplied by a department of state in the same way as (say) the modern Royal Mail in the UK.)
Is it saying there was no postal system or that there was a postal system but not like the UK government supervised modern system?
How does a poor man like Paul afford $30 letters to many many churches ?
Was Paul using the Pony Express?
How does a poor man like Paul afford $30 letters to many many churches?
How did Judge Rutherford drive two 12 cylinder Cadillacs and live in a mansion?
He had special wealthy donors.
A very famous bishop named Marcion is described this way: Hippolytus records that Marcion was the son of the bishop of Sinope, in Pontus. His near-contemporaries Rhodo and Tertullian described him as a wealthy ship owner, [ 3 ] and he is said to have made a donation of 200,000 sesterces to the church
You still havent solved the problem of how did the concerned believers find Paul when he traveled away ?
My daughter recently told me she was going to vacation in Alaska in a town of about 45. I didn't write down the address she gave me.
Internet didn't work up there! I wrote her a short (snail mail) letter and put "In care of Postmaster General" and wrote her name
and the town name.
She got the letter!
One of the original meanings of the word Apostle was a liason between little groups of Jesus followers. They created networks.
They found out who lived where and they tried to stay in touch and exhort one another.
Paul, as an "Apostle" would have access to this network information. They (various congregations) would, in turn, have his whereabouts made known through the "grapevine" network.
@Terry
He had special wealthy donors.
mP:
I think its fair to say P did not carry lots of money with him as he mentions a few times doing some tent work to pay his way. While your idea of wealthy donations is possible the above passages that i refer to imply the complete opposite. To send messages via any means would require significant amounts of money.
