How exactly did Paul keep in touch with his network of churches across the empire...

by mP 84 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Terry

  mp:Theres a big difference between being able to read basic text and actually being able to write which would be required to form some communication. We dont appreciate the difference but this is a big one. Even until recent times Kings couldnt read or write.

  I don't think you've thought this through very well.

  There were people who, for a small fee, called an emanuensis, would write letters FOR you and also READ them.

  Think of it this way, Today if you need a legal contract and can't write one yourself--what do you do? You pay and attorney to do it for you.

  People have communicated without too much difficulty throughout all of history by being clever, resourceful and inventive.

  Even aborigine tibes in America could communicate with drums and smoke signals.

  Carrier pigeons with a message could carry messages long distances.

  Ships at sea used semaphores.

  The list is endless.

  
• 

  mP

  MP:

  Supposedly Christians are a banned sect in the first century being killed by the thousands by the Romans. Perhaps many were on the run, but you tell me they are sending their letters via the mail belonging to the Empire, the very empire trying to kill them ? Doesnt sound very smart.

  Do you think the jews were sending open letters talking about Jewish matters via the Nazi mail ?

  SOmething doesnt add up.

  Terry

  I don't think you've thought this through very well.

  There were people who, for a small fee, called an emanuensis, would write letters FOR you and also READ them.

  Think of it this way, Today if you need a legal contract and can't write one yourself--what do you do? You pay and attorney to do it for you.

  mP:

  We were clearly talking about regular letters not ones constructed by solicitor types. As we both know these services are not free, which again brings up the matter cost. I know you brought up the matter of a wealth benefactor, and that could happen. Strangely this arrangement along with the money were never mentioned in any of the letters.

  Terry

  Even aborigine tibes in America could communicate with drums and smoke signals.

  MP:

  Smoke signals dont work cross country. Im pretty sure tehre are no exampkes of an entire chain of indians crossing hundreds of km.

  Terry:

  Carrier pigeons with a message could carry messages long distances.

  MP

  How exactl is a pigeon going to carry an entire scroll the size of any of the books we have in the Bible. The poor thing can only carry a few words. To send any Pauline book would require a squadron of pigeons. There has never been an example ancient or modern of pigeons flying the distances that you claim. If a network did exist the cost would be prohibitive.

  Terry

  Ships at sea used semaphores.

  MP:

  Semaphores require a ship every 3km or so. I mean comeone are we to believe they had thousands of ships bobbing up and down from Rome to Alexandria or any other major networks.

  If we look at the end of the war of 1812, we cansee even the British EMpire didnt have any of the comunication systems you claim existed in ancient Rome. They sent messagse the old fashion way by ship.

  There are many examples of battles months after are a peace has been negotiated somewhere else in the world in ancient times before the telegraph.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_1812#Negotiations_and_peace

  On December 24, 1814 the diplomats had finished and signed the Treaty of Ghent. The treaty was ratified by the British three days later on December 27 [151] [152] [153] and arrived in Washington on February 17 where it was quickly ratified and went into effect, thus finally ending the war.

  ...

  American victories in September 1814 and January 1815 repulsed all three British invasions in New York , Baltimore and New Orleans.

  Your examples are nonsense, unpractical and just dont work.
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  HowTheBibleWasInvented

  The Christians were persucuted in the first century ...BY JEWS. A large scale attack on Christians might have occured under Nero however throughout the rest of the empire it was not Romans vs Christians.

  Almost all of Paul's authentic letters have the name of the bearer of the letter included. The letters were taken from Paul and his team (Often Silas and Timothy) and taken to the church by road or sea.

  Christians were likely persucuted severly under Domitian as the 1st century was ending and thus we see John of Patmos in chains writing in HORRIBLE GREEK and socking and evil imagery. The Beast- Nero... Image of the Beast - Domitians etc.

  However out of the 90s also likely spurned the Johannaine churches which seemed to be rich Gentiles who met in secret (Note the way Jesus washes his disciples feet in a secret room in the story of the Gospel of John). It is also likely at this time 2 Thessalonians was written in Paul's name portraying Domitian as 'the man of sin'!

  It is likely that with ten years of Pauk's death (picking the traditional 64) Ephesians and Colossians were written in Paul's name expanding on his theology.

  By th second century there was a huge relapse of persucution and this is when that hard hitting letters Hebreews, James (although a few verses in chapter 4 might date back to James) Jude, 1 Peter and Luke-Acts.

  1 Timothy and Titus show an organized structure of overseers etc. (2 Timothy too however part of chapter 1 and 4 are likely a core going back to Paul)

  2 Peter was last and ironically called Paul's letters 'scripture'

  The Persucution did NOT stop the letters from travelling. However it did change Chrstian theology for decades and gave birth to the modern idea of 'The Antichrist'
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  Band on the Run

  I am almost certain that in some of Paul's letters he expressly states that he has just learned or read from letters sent to him that James or Peter's minions have undone his hard work and Jesus' gospel is now polluted. He is overinsistent that he knows more than Peter or James yet he has to backtrack for what must be political/social reasons.

  If I had access to someone who knew someone intimately or someone's full or twin brother, I would not believe what happened on the road to Damascus. When I was in college, the emphais in every course was on the political and economic. Paul's gospel travels better. More people in the Roman worlld would vote to follow Paul. Paul's teachngs worked well for many centuries and even in many ways today.

  Other parts of the world have emphasis on other apostles. I just know Pauline teaching personally. It would be interesting to meet certain people raised with access to several versions of Christian doctrine.

  I was not present with Paul. The other day I spent a lot of time on Paul McCartney and then accidently ended up here. My mind was fried abou what Paul McCartney had to do wtih Jesus and the first century.
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  MrFreeze

  Paul checked in to various prisons, homes, and congregations on facebook
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  mP

  @how

  Almost all of Paul's authentic letters have the name of the bearer of the letter included. The letters were taken from Paul and his team (Often Silas and Timothy) and taken to the church by road or sea.

  mP:

  But how did the churches manage to find where to send their letters to begin with, considering P was always moving about.
• 

  mP

  @how

  A large scale attack on Christians might have occured under Nero however throughout the rest of the empire it was not Romans vs Christians.

  mP:

  Paul was supposed to have most busy during the time of Nero, so my remark stands true.

  How exactly do you know all this ?

  how:

  Christians were likely persucuted severly under Domitian as the 1st century was ending and thus we see John of Patmos in chains writing in HORRIBLE GREEK and socking and evil imagery. The Beast- Nero... Image of the Beast - Domitians etc

  mP:

  Actually the number 666 is written as 616 which spells Nero caesar. Read the rest of the article. If you understand the history of the time you will see Rev is talking about Nero.

  Im not doubting or discussion Domitian becaue its irrelevant as P was not alive then.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_beast

  The number of the beast (Greek: ?ριθμ?ς το? θηρ?ου , Arithmos tou Theriou) is the numerological identifier ascribed to the beast from the sea, [1] the first of two symbolic beasts described in the Book of Revelation's thirteenth chapter. [2] In most New Testament manuscripts, the number is rendered as 666, but the variant 616 is found in critical editions of the Greek text, such as the Novum Testamentum Graece. [3]

  In the 19th century James Austin Bastow identified the number as having symbolic correlation to the Emperor Nero, whose Greek name transliterated into Hebrew has the numeric value of 666, whereas his Latin name written into Hebrew is 616

  Most of what you said is completely wrong and not really addrssing the original question.
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  mP

  BoR

  I am almost certain that in some of Paul's letters he expressly states that he has just learned or read from letters sent to him that James or Peter's minions have undone his hard work and Jesus' gospel is now polluted.

  mP:

  And how did those letters manage to find him when he was constantly wondering the empire ? Just stop and think how difficult it would be to send a message in a time with no mail, telephone, email and everything required travelling in person in some form. Its simply an impossible task to find someone without these aides in an empire of 100 million people that spans the area of Ancient Rome.
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  mP

  BoR

  If I had access to someone who knew someone intimately or someone's full or twin brother, I would not believe what happened on the road to Damascus. When I was in college, the emphais in every course was on the political and economic. Paul's gospel travels better. More people in the Roman worlld would vote to follow Paul. Paul's teachngs worked well for many centuries and even in many ways today.

  mP:

  Paul didnt write any gospels, he wrote a different style of letter. If you read P's writings (real or fake) you wont learn anything about jesus life. Its an easy exercise to do this grab your fav search engine and search for Jesus,Christ or any keyword you can think about Jesus life and you wont find it in pauls writing. P did not know jesus. Paul states this in Romans that jesus would not even qualify to be a priest if he came to earth. I think its in Romans 8.
• 

  mP

  @How

  However out of the 90s also likely spurned the Johannaine churches which seemed to be rich Gentiles who met in secret (Note the way Jesus washes his disciples feet in a secret room in the story of the Gospel of John). It is also likely at this time 2 Thessalonians was written in Paul's name portraying Domitian as 'the man of sin'!

  It is likely that with ten years of Pauk's death (picking the traditional 64) Ephesians and Colossians were written in Paul's name expanding on his theology.

  By th second century there was a huge relapse of persucution and this is when that hard hitting letters Hebreews, James (although a few verses in chapter 4 might date back to James) Jude, 1 Peter and Luke-Acts.

  1 Timothy and Titus show an organized structure of overseers etc. (2 Timothy too however part of chapter 1 and 4 are likely a core going back to Paul)

  2 Peter was last and ironically called Paul's letters 'scripture'

  mP:

  You havent actually addressed how P communicated with his multitiude of churches with no resources available to him.

  There is no historical proof that P even existed your just repeating Church tradition. Forget tradition and address the practical aspect.