Why does god kill children?

by Comatose 269 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • myelaine

    being willing to do something is not the same as being ready to do something. abraham could be of the right heart (willing) to do the command of God but not have a conscience (ready) to accept that what God commanded was what he wanted. I don"t think that God commanded abraham to sacrifice issac as a test of loyalty. I think because God asked abraham to move away from the surrounding nations after the incedent it was more of a teaching episode that we can learn from as well. It is within us to "go along to get along" even if it is against our own conscience. But abraham trusted in God's promise and that overrode his own conscience. that is a pattern that the army of israel followed. I don't think they were full of bloodlust and casually slaughtered anyone. (we do see bloodlust today in islam which has no connection to a conscience being overridden by the command of God...what we see there is a debased conscience similar, I guess, to what may have been going on in the ancient nations surrounding abraham with parents WILLING to sacrifice their children etc.)

    dear AndDontCallMeShirley...

    I'm not assuming...actually not knowing fully the dynamics of the situation back then, I'm trying to analyze the possible motivations of God; taking into account all the different aspects given of God's character and His stated purpose of ridding the world of evil instead of narrow-mindedly jumping to conclusions or seeking to dismiss facts as the lying pen of the scribes. bottom line, I'm not quite as confident in my knowledge as you seem to be as to the grand scheme of the seen and the unseen that I would boldly assume and declare that I am more moral than God based on a few texts that seek to explain the course of God's interaction with man over thousands of years.

    love michelle

  • Comatose

    So the 32k virgins god said they could keep after being told to slaughter the old women and little ones they had brought back? Try number 4 with you...

    Did you ever consider that "god" was telling the child sacrifers to do that as well? Not the Hebrew god but their god. I'm not sure why that is bloodlust and its not with the Jews. How do you know if those parents were crying and tormented and guilt ridden over what their god and religious leaders told them to do?

    you keep pointedly ignoring the question on the virgins, which leads me to believe you either have no answer or you didn't know it was in the bible and don't know what I'm talking about.

  • myelaine

    dear comatose...

    I'm sorry I haven't responded to your question. I'm sure I haven't got a suitable response though because I haven't even taken the time to consider that text to find any teaching, rebuke or doctrine in it. Maybe since the episode is proven to be something you are given to consider, you can inform us of anything you've come up with.

    I look forward to your thorough analysis :)

    love michelle

  • Comatose

    Dear michelle,

    God kills kids that are innocent. That's not fair or loving. It's wrong and makes a mockery of god is love chants. Really doesn't take too much study to come up with that. Pretty easily spotted. But, there is not good excuse to quickly type in a rebuttal. Which is probably why you all are at a loss.

    Love coma

  • Finkelstein

    Yes a God that gets his retribution from men who cause grief onto his chosen people, the ancient Hebrews,

    by killing their children, validates his true love and just as a god and grand creator.

  • tec

    Hi Comatose.

    The answer I gave... that not everything that man attributes to God is actually God... is part of my answer to your query in the OP. On top of that, man does not interpret everything as it should be interpreted, because of how it is written... because there are errors that come into play, from the scribes (those who took down the words; those who copied them, certainly those who translated from one language to another... considering also how words and phrases and customs change through time) Those errors and misunderstandings get passed on from generation to generation, distorting what was meant.

    If one wants to know God, then one MUST look at His Son... who is His Image (meaning see Christ, see God) This is the only accurate way that we have of knowing God.

    Thta said, and just so that no one thinks I am dodging the question... since I helped this go off topic:

    1. Kills all of Egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions Pharoah made. How many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?

    First... I'm not worried about the parents at all. IF you recall... egypt killed all the male children of Israel. Their blood cried out to God. Israel had not gone around killing any of Egypt... but Egypt enslaved them, mistreated them, caused the death of many... AND... Pharoah at one point had all the newborn males murdered. Egypt put their faith in Pharoah, and did nothing to stop his decrees. So egypt shares in that sin.

    Second... firstborn son does not necessarily mean child. A husband or father or adult can be the firstborn in a house. Just for the sake of accuracy.

    Third... Pharoah was considered a god to his people. Never mind all the warning that God gave to Pharoah... and the even harsher treatement of God's people that resulted. When God allowed death to enter Egypt... His people were not harmed, at least not as long as they put faith in Him, and placed the lamb's blood over the doorstop.

    Those whose faith was in Pharoah... reaped the protection against death that this 'god' could give. Which was none.

    This account is also a foreshadowing for us.

    Death could not touch anyone in the house of those who placed the blood of the lamb on their doors. Just as death has no authority over those who have the blood of the lamb (Christ) covering them... whose blood protects them and those who are in their 'house'. (they and their house/family/children are covered; which is contrary to the wts teaching which would have a mother resurrected to paradise, but her children killed... where is the joy in that?)

    If the egyptians had listened and put their faith in God, putting lambs blood on their doors... death would have passed their house by also. (some may have done this, as it is)

    2. Some kids jeer at a prophet and so using Holy Spirit the prophet calls a bear to shred 42 of them. A bit extreme? The WT explanation says their parents were bad and didn't respect Jehovah or his prophet, this was a lesson for them. Again, easily overlooked is the terrible pain and anguish at the loss of a child. Why not kill the parents or smite them with a plague? Why the kids?

    This did not happen. Something may have happened (coincidentally), or something mighit have happened that got exaggerated into a tale told to frighten youths into behaving and showing respect. Though even if it had happened as written... Elijah would have been the one to take issue with on this account. it might simply be a tale told to frighten youths into... but if it did, Elijah is the one you would have to take this up with.

    3. David sins with Bathsheeba, god kills the baby as punishment. In fact, the bible he struck it a blow and that it suffered for a week prior to dying. WT says this was a loving thing to do since David was worthy of death, lovingly god spared him. Screw the child though.

    I am going to say that i don't know what is up with this, or what might be true. I have thought that people may simply have attributed the sickness and death of this child TO God, becasue of the sin of David.

    It has happened before that people attribute the death of someone to God (as in God struck the person down), when it was natural consequences of something else.

    4. The flood, would have killed untold numbers of children.

    The flood is another matter... as in there were other things at play in this, and that without it, worse things would happen. None of us would be here, for one thing. But i do not know all the details. I do know that there are things that man does not understand on this matter. It was not a punishment.

    5. He instructed the Israelites to let your heart not show mercy and to strike even the little ones as they fought their battles. In one case they bring back young ones and some grandmothers. He then has them kill the grandmas and baby boys, but they get to keep the 32k virgin girls. Odd.

    We know that God did not instruct the Israelites to do this... because it is against what Christ shows us about God.

    6. Achin sins by stealing and his whole family is put to death. You think a little kid living back then in those adult and male dominated times would have been able to do anything about their dad stealing?

    You have caught me unaware ; ) I don't know this account. Can you cite it?

    Regardless mind you, God does not punish the child for the sins of the father... and we also know that the Israelites did do this, and thought it was just. But God corrected them... as someone highlighted at the top of page two or three of this thread.



  • tec
    Tammy is so in love with Jesus, and encourages people here to follow his teachings, yet she dismisses/marginalizes one of his simplest and most direct commands.

    No I don't. Here is my explanation again:

    Is it okay for you to make personal jabs, but not for someone to respond to you as you are speaking to them? (there are more jabs that you have made at me and others, if you would like me to list them out for you)

    I did not respond like that to hurt you... but in the hopes that you would see what YOU are doing. That perhaps, even as others do not always think things through... you are doing that very thing in this instance, yourself.

    I don't think you are lacking in intelligence. I DO, however, think you have not thought this one through... perhaps because this criticism you have against those who believe in Christ and God, but don't believe the bible is inerrant... is based upon it.

    However, I apologize for responding to you in the same manner that you were speaking to me and others, when I made the quip about you not thinking... instead of trying to show you with more patience and love.

    Tammy, you posted a definition for "inspired". Care to post one for "hypocrite" with the same enthusiasm?

    A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.

    A person who holds someone else to a standard that they do not hold themselves to.



  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    (we do see bloodlust today in islam which has no connection to a conscience being overridden by the command of God...what we see there is a debased conscience similar, I guess, to what may have been going on in the ancient nations surrounding abraham with parents WILLING to sacrifice their children etc.)



    You do understand that Islam came from Christianity, do you not?

    Muslims feel as justified in slaughtering their enemies (everyone who is not a Muslim) as the ancient Hebrews felt in slaughtering theirs. And, for your information, they both claim absolute authority from god for their barbarism-divinely sanctioned murder. The result of a "debased conscience"? Of course, but no more debased than the characters in the Bible Christians are supposed to admire.

    I think because God asked abraham to move away from the surrounding nations after the incedent it was more of a teaching episode that we can learn from as well.

    Yes, the "lesson" learned has been used by Christians as justification for things like the Crusades. They learned exactly what they were supposed to- if god orders you to kill people, shut off your conscience and do it.


    If one wants to know God, then one MUST look at His Son... who is His Image (meaning see Christ, see God) This is the only accurate way that we have of knowing God.

    Jesus and the god of the OT could not be more opposite! This is a massively failed argument. I would sure like to see the Biblical accounts recounting all the genocides, small-scale murders, plagues, blood lust and general mayhem recorded in Jesus' activities that have any resemblance to OT stories.

    Maybe they are there...but the accounts are written so poorly it just isn't obvious. Yeah, that's it.

  • tec

    Hi Hummingbird! I have to respond to a couple of things that you said about me... just to clarify... because I do not hold the position or importance that you seem to be giving me.

    I did that because she claims to speak for Jesus

    I do not speak for Him. He has His own voice, and He speaks for Himself, as He hears and learns from God. I share things that He speaks to me at times, yes. But I, myself, am no one special... and no one should take my word for anything, but go to Christ and ask/learn from Him. I am certainly not inerrant.

    I am no one.

    My task is to witness to Him, and point others to Him... if they choose.

    and this part of her hearing from Jesus seems to go against what I believe the Bible and Jesus says.

    You should always listen to Christ over me. Always.

    He is the teacher. He is the life. He is the Word of God.

    Not me... on any accounts.

    Again, i am just a witness, and even the apostles behaved in a manner that was against what Christ taught at times. Such as when Paul rebuked Peter, for the hypocrisy Peter was showing in his treatment of the gentiles. So I can and do as well. I don't do so on purpose, but I can do so in ignorance. Or even in anger, not thinking.

    So again, I am thankful that you spoke out... and for Christ.

    I do not hear Jesus so I guess I have to go with what she says. This seems a contradiction.

    You definitely do not have to go with anything i say... nor should you.

    One should always test what another person says... especially those things that a person says came from the Spirit of Christ or God.

    Test the inspired expressions.

    Test against Christ, in spirit... if you can. If you cannot yet hear him (or simply do not know to recognize his voice yet... though you can ask Him to help you, to open your ears so that you may hear), then there are still tests:

    Test against love.

    Test against what is written, starting with what Christ is recorded to have written, since He is the one we are to listen TO, and since HE is the Truth.

    Sounds to me like you did just that :)

    I, myself, would not take another person's word for something... but I do (and have) test it also.

    Peace and love to you, Hummingbird,


  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    We know that God did not instruct the Israelites to do this... because it is against what Christ shows us about God.


    No doubt that account is in some verses that are "not inspired". That way they can be easily dismissed. So much easier than acknowledging the facts.

Share this