Atheism and the delusion of meaning

by Laika 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • Laika
    Laika

    In the movie Annie Hall, written by Woody Allen, as a young boy, Alvy's mother, takes him to see a doctor as he appears to be dealing with some kind of depression. When the doctor asks Alvy what's up, Alvy explains that he just found out the universe is expanding, everything will spread out and go cold and die, therefore nothing he does matters, so he is not going to do anything anymore. Most people might see this as a joke, but I think Woody is trying to make a serious point.

    The point here is about meaning. Imagine the universe did come out of nothingness, by the big bang. Next comes the universe, that is now expanding and will eventually die, and say the life of the entire universe then is 30 billion years, that might seem like a long time, but placed between the eternity past and the eternity future, then the 30 billion year life of the universe is just a single sentence, well, no, actually like a single word, no actually like a single letter, actually even smaller than a full stop in an entire library, but even that is an exaggeration, maybe the greatest exaggeration ever! So, then, to find meaning in a life of an individual of 80 years, that is infinity insignificant. If we lived the life of Gandhi a million times over, or an extreme Hitler where we gassed every man, woman and child alive, any of those actions would be totally meaningless in the big picture of all that is.

    But now the atheists have to start their self-deception. They try to give the impersonal meaningless universe meaning. Just listen to them. In place of God, love, purpose they have these existential concepts of the survival of the herd, the advancement of mankind, the enjoyment of the beauty of nature etc...

    So what's wrong with this? Well it's dishonest. It provides them with sanity and with that they can get up in the morning, get dressed, kiss their wives and children, go off to work and pretend it is real, but it isn't. There's no such thing as beauty or love, it's all relativity and even that is meaningless. The universe doesn't care if you succeed or fail, if you hate or love or whether or not you survive. It doesn't care if the herd survives or goes extinct. Nothing out of nothing. Keep going in this direction, enter that dark labyrinth and you will drown in the absurdity.

    So to be an atheist then, you must be a nihilist. Anything else is a delusion, as great as the delusions of the Jehovah's Witnesses. In a self created, impersonal universe there cannot be any meaning. You are just a series of random events, you are no more valuable than a dog turd. Just as King Solomon said it is all in vain, totally meaningless.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Hi Laika

    So, what's the answer then?

  • iCeltic
    iCeltic

    Just as King Solomon said, that made me laugh.

  • Laika
    Laika

    Hi punkofnice,

    I can't provide a definitive answer. As a former Jehovah's Witness I now know that I am capable of great self-deception, this is something we should all be aware of. We all have the ability to create an alternate reality, I recently read about something called conversion disorder where people make themselves sick, you can even will yourself blind, subconciously. The bible even talks about self-deception (Jer 17:9)

    So I don't think we can know anything for certain, we just have to hope we can find enough assurance that something is worth living our life for.

    We as humans intrinsically stive for meaning, so for us to be the product of a meaningless universe is inconsistent. The Christian philosopher Francis Schaeffer argued that this would be an evolutionary failure, like fish in a water world with no free gases evolving lungs, it would be inconsistent with their universe. So I think our strive for meaning points to something.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Marking for later when I will look forward to explaining your false dichotomy.

  • Tiktaalik
    Tiktaalik

    What a load of pompous drivel.

    You're saying that the universe needs to have a god running the show because you're too scared to face reality.

    Your comments are insulting (dog turd...? Seriously?) and absurd.

  • Laika
    Laika

    And I will look forward to reading your explanation Cofty. ;)

    Tiktaalik,

    Not sure how it's more insulting than saying I'm too scared to face reality?

    If there is no God I'm not more valuable than dog turd either. I think you may have misunderstood that point, I do think you are more valuable than dog turd! Perhaps you can explain how you assign value to things/people as an atheist?

  • metatron
    metatron

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJemDZcgIZE This is the speech from "Second Hand Lions" that sums it all up for me.

  • metatron
    metatron

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJemDZcgIZE

    Let's try this again. We all have to confront this issue, of nihilism. It isn't easy but believing in a personal Creator isn't that much of a help when you stand back and think, "Ok, so WTF? We suffer and die while God watches? Then what? Does Heaven seem anything other than boring?"

    metatron

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley
    Perhaps you can explain how you assign value to things/people as an atheist?

    --

    This is such an ignorant statement.

    As has been discussed many times on this forum, religion does not equate to morality or to the meaning one's life has. In fact, some of the most barbarous acts humans have committed against fellow humans has been done in the name of religion, and continues until this day.

    Why is a god required for one human to value another or for a person's life to have meaning? I argue the opposite is true: religion is probably the single greatest divisive factor in the affairs of humanity. Read some history. And how is it that the meaning a religious person's life has is somehow superior to the atheists meaning? Religious "meaning" is merely the fabrication of self-deluded individuals who successfully convinced other people to buy into a massive lie.

    Laika, you may want to do more research. Various studies have demonstrated clearly that the most secular nations rank highest in quality of life than do religious nations. Your claims simply do not hold water.

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