Considering the asymmetrical long silences, might they be absences? A figure eight orbit on an accellerating vehicle might explain it. Of course, the concept of an omnipresent God would have to go.
Do beleivers have a problem with GODS silence in this technological/communication age ? and if not why not ? ?
by smiddy 55 Replies latest jw friends
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fakesmile
i AM one the modern day prophets. if jesus was a wino and jeremiah walked around naked, than i got this. what about those hobos holding the sign that says "repent"? i think that those hobos match the bible prophets to a T. kinda "first will be last" and what not.
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EdenOne
Jgnat,
A few times the Scriptures mention God "turning his attention to" something or "remembering" someone. Since God, in principle, isn't distracted or suffers from memory shortage, that may mean he was absent or busy with something else.
Eden
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Qcmbr
AA sorry was away will respond to:
What's the difference between your beliefs Qcmr and Spontaneous generation when it comes to how life evolved on earth?
I am no authority on the beginning of life studies however, we observe in nature and without intervention from any measurable supernatural medium the following: 1/ complex chemistry in the presence of energy gradients, reactive molecules and mediums such as water or ammonia 2/ in some scenarios the spontaneous chemical generation of amino acids 3/ in some scenarios the spontaneous generation of cell like membrane structures ( basically tiny bubbles separating chemicals within from chemicals without but crucially, in the presence of an energy gradient, allowing chemical reactions to occur by passing material across the membrane - for example clay bubbles in solution with salts) 4/ many natural processes follow regular replication patterns ( crystals as a quick example) Given enough time, energy and chemicals ( say in vast oceans) and the unimaginable speed and number of resulting chemical reactions that occur every second is it really a stretch to conceive of a very, very simple replicative chemical process that happens to reach a stable state. Once you have a replicating mechanism ( all chemical, no 'life' ) and enough material and energy to sustain it and you have an opportunity for RNA to emerge as long as the chemistry that is occurring is generating amino acids and the replicative process is not 100% perfect ( I.e. you must have room to change). One thing that helped me to think about it is Lego. We all know you can build amazing machines in Lego and the idea that if we shook loose Lego together long enough it would somehow fall together as a vast machine is clearly wrong. However, if we add some chemical style rules ( certain bricks will try and fit with other bricks , certain structures are able and likely to always form if we have 5 blue, 2 red and 1 yellow 4 by 2 brick close by and so forth - lets call it. 'bobbleA' structure ) and now we don't have lots of loose single bricks we have clumps of bricks that are sticking together then breaking apart ( sure you won't get a beautiful colour coded millennium falcon - that would be design!) but given enough time and enough Lego structures and enough 'reactions' you will get some behaviour and state machines forming completely by chance. They won't be pretty, they will be complex( at the atomic brick Lego level) and they won't be alive but they will do stuff ( for example one made from a clump of bobbleA's might have a hole that only fits another unattached bobbleA and quite by chance starts to act as a sorting structure and increasing the likelihood of more bobbleA sorters occurring.) The long term result would / could eventually be organised into basic machines that copy themselves - don't get me wrong highly unlikely in a tiny scenario but given oceans of Lego and billions of years not so hard to imagine since we know that organised right Lego has the ability to act as a machine. Have a look at what proteins look like..chemical Lego. http://www.123rf.com/photo_16083493_chemical-structure-of-a-nerve-growth-factor-ngf-protein-molecule-this-signaling-protein-is-important.htmlLife is , IMO, an emergent property of chemical reactions that is not guaranteed (for example replicative chemical and physical reactions such as crystal formation haven't , as far as we know, spawned crystal life forms ) but the chemical machines that occurred somewhere billions of years ago happened to be right for ongoing replication. We see the end result today as very complex machines ( animal cells) and the relatively simpler viral machines. The organisation of cells with each other is a totally different topic but not too difficult to imagine - note this IS NOT HOW IT HAPPENS - one mud membrane protects our bobbleA sorters such that it fills with them, every now and then the bubble gets too big and splits carrying a few bobbleA sorters in each division, one such bobbleA sorter bubble happens to be near another membrane that has something gathering blue, red and yellow bricks ( a tribbleB sorter) and the two, quite by chance, begin to correspond and now wherever a bobbleA sorter population occurs it does so more generally near tribbleB sorters until the majority of instances of these two sorters are next to each other and the most successful are the accidentally conjoined membranes.
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smiddy
If I can clarify my op ,I understand that God communicated directly with human beings in times past,directly,in some cases one on one,or via a prophet who apparently had the credentials to convince his or her audience that the God of the universe has spoken through them.In the bible Major prophets and Minor prophets , Angelic revelations ,are abundant for four thousand years up until two thousand years ago
.Since then all we have are people /individuals who have had a personal experience that they alone decipher as having been an experience of Jesus entering their lives. And all of this only amongst those who profess christianity .
Jesus message was supposed to be for all mankind ,pity it was only delivered to a small section ( the Jews ) Pity it was taken up by a more smaller sect , a breakaway movement forming the christians of the time .
Christianity is what ,about a third of the worlds population ? So for the past two thousand years God has had no interest in two thirds of the worlds population , condemning them to death according to christian beleifs.by his silence.
Where is Gods direct intervention by prophets / Angels / or his own voice in channelling two thirds of the worlds population in the right direction.
Is that too much to ask ?
smiddy
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tec
If I can clarify my op ,I understand that God communicated directly with human beings in times past,directly,in some cases one on one,or via a prophet who apparently had the credentials to convince his or her audience that the God of the universe has spoken through them.In the bible Major prophets and Minor prophets , Angelic revelations ,are abundant for four thousand years up until two thousand years ago
Are you sure they were as abundant as you are suggesting? We're still talking about Israel right (just one small nation), and before Israel, we're talking about the one man, Abraham. There are others as well, some not written about in the bible, but remember that even the prophets were unpopular, and killed. ("you who kill the prophets and those sent to you")
Christ is the One who speaks now... and He does speak to all. But not all hear and not all listen TO Him, often dismissing Him as something else (own inner voice, just a feeling)... and on top of that they are told that they canNOT hear, and if they do then there is something wrong with them.
I (and others who hear Him) hear Him in words, or in reminders of scripture, or in images, or in dreams, or in 'knowing' (understanding and knowledge given, spirit to spirit).
But most people won't believe that.
There are also angels around, but who believes the person who says that an angel came and helped them or talked to them?
.Since then all we have are people /individuals who have had a personal experience that they alone decipher as having been an experience of Jesus entering their lives. And all of this only amongst those who profess christianity .
I don't think they alone decipher it thus. Others may corroborate with Christ, in spirit, at least the message that was spoken. However, someone who does not profess Christ (Christ, not christianity) is not likely to know or understand or recognize if Christ is speaking to them.
But Christ did say that the path was narrow, and He did question whether or not He would find faith when He returned.
Jesus message was supposed to be for all mankind ,pity it was only delivered to a small section ( the Jews ) Pity it was taken up by a more smaller sect , a breakaway movement forming the christians of the time .
Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, because the covenant God had was WITH Israel. Not all of mankind. But the promise and covenant opened up to all who would put faith in Christ. So that the new covenant IS for anyone... who puts faith in Him. That does not mean that everyone else is condemned, even though some of 'christianity' states so, but they do not know this. Because there are those who did not know (or profess) Christ, but who Christ knows because of what they did. Everything that they did to even the least of his brothers, they did for Him. The sheep and the goats. (matt 25:31-46)
Conversely, there are also those who think that they belong to Him, but do not.
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers." (matt 7: 21-23)
Christianity is what ,about a third of the worlds population ? So for the past two thousand years God has had no interest in two thirds of the worlds population , condemning them to death according to christian beleifs.by his silence.
See above.
Where is Gods direct intervention by prophets / Angels / or his own voice in channelling two thirds of the worlds population in the right direction.
He does not speak by His own voice to people.
Christ speaks, as all authority has been given to Him.
No one comes to the Father except through the Son.
In any case, mankind chooses for himself and for his children, who he puts his faith in and who he wants to listen to. Religion is something that man has chosen over the spirit, walking by sight over walking by faith. Religion is all about seeing, touching, etc... something physical. Faith is in what is not seen, but is heard. Not physical, but the Spirit.
Is that too much to ask ?
He has and does do this, now through His Son. Remember that even Christ was rejected by many and killed, even after all the miracles and such that He performed. So were prophets. And people often reject the one who tells them something they do not want to hear. Or the one who shines a light on the truth they do not want to know.
Christ and God are spirit. So are we. We must learn to listen, in faith and in spirit.
Man has made that more difficult for people to even KNOW, much less DO, by saying that Christ does not speak, that if you hear him, then it is your own inner voice or you are lying, or you are crazy.
Again, Christ did ask the question as to whether or not He would find faith in the world when He returned. People have a way of overlooking statements like that, and instead go with what they want to believe. Like when Christ told Peter that Peter would deny him three times. Peter said no way, I would never do that. But Christ knew, and it happened as Christ said it would happen.
Perhaps people are afraid to believe things like that (meaning a lack of faith in Christ and what He has said to them), perhaps because they are afraid that they cannot be forgiven? Some perhaps because they do not want to see that they are capable of doing such things; they do not want to see the truth about themselves, and so they do not believe (do not exercise faith).
But Christ DOES speak, Smiddy. If you want to hear Him, and do not hear Him now, then you can ask Him to grant you ears that hear. Then keep asking, keep knocking... and the door WILL be opened.
Peace,
tammy
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cofty
Yes Tammy unlike you I don't hear Jesus voice in my head because I am sanerational afraid.
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tec
That is not what I said, Cofty... though it is true that some people are afraid to hear; to have faith or to try.
Peace,
tammy
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John_Mann
Jesus are speaking to me right now.
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fakesmile
@ john, have you heard the gospel of lars?