Yea the fazing out of it's importance will occur without any fanfare. Just like the change on who is attacked by the UN. It will be in print, buried in a paragraph about some inane topic, and then it's doctrine.
ONLY 500 DAYS REMAINING until the 100th Anniversary of Jesus reign...
by Calebs Airplane 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Este
1914 was an invisible presence of Jesus Christ , hang on, wasnt it 1874 ? an invisible presence of Jesus Christ ? or am I mistaken ! I could be .1888 or somewhere about that date wasn't that the end of 6000 years of humans existence on earth ? according to WT chronology ? And then that was changed to 1975 ,so can we see a change of the 1914 date before the 100th Anniversary ? It wouldnt surprise me .
Christ has been present ever since he was transformed into a spirit......
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded ?YOU. And, look! I am with ?YOU? all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
E.
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Heaven
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded ?YOU. And, look! I am with ?YOU? all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
Well this was an epic failure, being that there are 7 billion people on the Earth and only 2.5 billion of them are Christians. Something went horribly awry.
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Larsinger58
mP:
jesus was talking about the temple being destroyed in 70AD. Given the gospels were all written after this, its not prophecy but a warning. Jesus is telling the jews to give up in their fight against Rome. That "end' did happen, they got punished for trying the impossible.
LARS:
Hi mP. A reasonable first-glance application, but you have to deal with Luke 21:24 where the destruction of Jerusalem is specifically mentioned after which the "appointed times of the nations" would continue:
"24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."
So the visual here links the Jews going into exile with the trampling of Jerusalem and the continuation of the "appointed times of the nations" which is the system of things of the so-called "gentile times." Thus another interpretation is that the "gentile times" would end when the Jews are again in charge of their own homeland. Thus on November 30, 1947 when the Partition Agreement returned the Jews to their homeland and they had their own country again, thus officially not being in exile any more, then the "appointed times of the nations" could said to have ended at that time.
Also it doesn't matter if Luke and much of the rest of the NT was written after these events, because per the Bible John and Paul, specifically, never died. In fact, they are both still alive today. Noting that, it is reasonable to think they were involved in shepherding the development of the NT that we have today, even if this was behind the scenes.
In addition, in the JW cult setting, preterism has zero resonance because of the chronology. The WTS believes the 2nd coming occurs in a specific year based on the date for the fall of Jersualem. Even though revisionism affects a clear-cut date for the fall of Jerusalem, the primary focal dates of 607 BCE (JWs), 587 BCE (secular) or 529 BCE (Biblical) all would occur during the 20th Century. Plus, while a generation of 80 years is suggested for all the events mentioned from 1914-1994, another application could apply to the generation of Jesus' day, which included Paul and John who never died. So that generation of his day did not pass away yet completely. He returned in 1992.
So "this generation" has two applications: 1) 80 years from 1914 to 1994, where the 2nd coming must occur prior to the end of that generation before 1994, which it did. 2) The generation of Jesus' time from the 1st Century, some of whom would never die and thus still be alive at the time of his return in 1992.
So it really depends on interpretation. For those who think "the end" is Armageddon, of course, they think the Bible isn't being fulfilled or the Bible just is not true. But if you realize the "great tribulation" was the Holocaust and "the end" is a reference to the end of the gentile times, then all has been fulfilled as prophesied.
October 1992 marked the beginning of the secular year of the 2nd coming. October of 2013 would end the 21st year since that event. That is a period of three weeks of 7 years each. Not sure that will be of any chronological significance.
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Larsinger58
Jeffro:
As soon as someone insists that something "has to" fall at a particular time in order for some magical thing to happen, you can safely conclude that the person saying it is wrong.
Lars:
Hi Jeff. Your statement makes no sense, since the fulfillment of the chronology is conditional. It is a test. It is either fulfilled per the interpretation or not. Case in point, the "great tribulation" that would see two-thirds of the Jews exterminated when 62 weeks begin the "cut off." If you calculate 70-week periods from 36 CE, then the 70 weeks during our time occur from 1506 to 1996. 62 weeks is 434 years and so the "cut off" which would begin the "great tribulation" would begin in 1940 and last one week until 1947. So if that is the correct interpretation for when the "great tribulation" would begin with the main focus on Jews during which time two-thirds of the Jewish population would be exterminated, then we only need to examine history to see if that interpretation was fulfilled. Indeed, between 1940-1947 six million out of nine million Jews died in the Holocaust.
Same with the 2nd coming, which must fulfill the 70th week. The 70th week for the period of 1506-1996 is 1989-1996. So the question is did Christ return in the flesh during that period? The answer is YES! That is, for those of us who have the correct interpretation of the manner of Christ's return, which is in an imperfect man's body.
So being "wrong" or right is a test question which we can apply since these are past events now. Now YOU personally don't believe any of this is fulfilled because you either don't believe the Bible or don't agree with this specific interpretation. But others of us out here who have a different interpretation and those who know I became the Christ see all this being fulfilled with amazing accuracy. Now either I'm right or wrong. I have proof I'm right because I'm part of the fulfillment. You'll have proof I'm right when Armageddon starts or when some other event gives you no choice but to accept the reality of God, the Bible and Bible prophecy. Now granted, all this is hard to believe. But God purposefully makes it hard for non-believers to believe by blinding their minds so that they cannot believe even if they are explained everything in detail...
ACTS 13:41 "Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in your days, a work that you will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail."
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Larsinger58
1914 was an invisible presence of Jesus Christ , hang on, wasnt it 1874 ? an invisible presence of Jesus Christ ? or am I mistaken ! I could be .1888 or somewhere about that date wasn`t that the end of 6000 years of humans existence on earth ? according to WT chronology ? And then that was changed to 1975 ,so can we see a change of the 1914 date before the 100th Anniversary ? It wouldnt surprise me .
smiddy
Per another interpretation, 1874 begins a generation of 120 years from 1874-1994, and 1914 begins an 80-year generation from 1914-1994. So both dates are still relevant. though not fully understood.
"Presence" is probably a poor concept that is lost in translation. In Jesus' day, a person's "parousia" was a long procession into a city by a high official where the official himself appears at the very last. So you could say his arrival began when the procession began into town. So we can call his "presence" the period of time the procession begins and his actual "arrival" the time when the dignitary actually arrives himself.
In regards to Christ, there is some direct preparation that must begin to prepare for his actual arrival. These preparations would occur within a generation of 120 years and 80 years. In reference to Christ's activities, therefore, he is pictured as waiting and sitting at the right hand of God in an inactive state until a generation before he is to return to the earth in the flesh. Thus 1874 would mark the time when "Michael stands up" (Daniel 12:1), that is, when Christ begins to actively begin activities that would lead directly to his 2nd coming before 1994.
So technically, if the direct activity of Christ in preparation of the second coming occurs within a generation of 180 years that began in 1874, it could be said that his "invisible presence [or parousia]" did, indeed, begin in 1874. Further, since the "last generation" of 80 years was to begin with a world war, i.e. "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom," then 1914 will remain the critical year we begin that last generation of 80 years within Christ's "parousia" that officially began in 1874.
But his ARRIVAL, the actual date of the 2nd coming is not the same as his "parousia" specifically. His arrival is a specific year linked to three prophecies:
1) The "7 times" prophecy, of course, understood by JWs to be 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. 607 BCE is not correct for several reasons and 587 BCE is incorrect because of distortion of the timeline by the Persians. The Biblical date for the 1st of Cyrus based on Jesus' baptism in 29 CE is 455 BCE. Add 70 years to arrive at year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II in 525 BCE, the year of the last deportation when the 70 years of exile/desolation begins. That means the fall of Jerusalem, per the Bible, would occur in 529 BCE, year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar II. In that case and per that interpretation, the 2nd coming would occur in 1992. The critical significance of that is that 1992 does occur slightly before the end of the 120-year and the 80-year generations which both end in 1994!
2) The "1335 days" prophecy dates the 2nd coming 45 years after the "end of the gentile times" and thus 45 years after 1947. November 30, 1947 ends the "1290 days" or the trampling of Jerusalem and the exile of the Jews. 1290 + 45 = 1335; 1947 + 45 = 1992. So same year as above.
3) Christ must fulfill the 70th week at both his 1st and 2nd coming. Thus the 70-week periods are fixed by Jesus' first coming in 29-36 CE. 4 x 490 = 1960; 1960 + 36 = 1996. So the 70th week of the 2nd coming would be from 1989-1996. Christ dies in the middle of the week at the 1st coming, thus fulfilling the first half of the 70th week. Christ ends the Lord's Supper in the middle of the 70th week of the 2nd coming. Mid-week Passover of 1989-1996 occurs on April 6, 1993. So Christ would arrive within less than a year of the Passover of April 6, 1993. April 6, 1993 was thus the first and last passover/Lord's SupperChrist would eat after his arrival. Even so, when you calculate the year of Christ's return via the "70 weeks" prophecy, you get the same year, 1992-1993.
Now the Bible says, "Nobody knows the DAY nor HOUR." But apparently that is specific, since we can determine the MONTH and YEAR of the second coming. Based on the above, Christ, in order to fulfill all prophecies, must arrive no earlier than November 30, 1992 but no later than April 6, 1993. This doesn't give us the DAY nor HOUR, but it narrows down the MONTH and YEAR!
Question is, did Christ fulfill this chronology? The answer is YES! The second coming occurred 3.5 days after the winter solstice of December 21, 1992, also as prophesied. That is, the 2nd coming occurred on December 25, 1992. December 25, 2013 will mark 21 years after the actual 2nd coming.
Now I'm not "preaching" this for others to believe, but merely sharing what some XJWs who are among the faithful anointed believe and understand. The WTS, as prophesied, have become the "man of lawlessness" now and thus are apostate and now in spiritual darkness. So true light will come from others at this point.
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Larsinger58
mP:
Armageddon occured on 13 Jan 1834. 13 from the apostles of Jesus, there is one god, 18 children of Ruth, 3 sons of jacob of giza and 4 sons of aaron. Its all basic stuff really.
LARS:
Armageddon cannot occur until after the 8th world power takes over; the 8th world power is the U.N. who takes over immediately after it destroys Babylon the Great, which is the "Illuminati" and Freemasonry influence over the UN. So when the UN takes over world government and outlaws the Federal Reserve and the CFR and the World Bank and the CIA, then you can expect Armageddon within a "time and season" which means a year and 3-4 months later, if not sooner. It's all basic stuff really.
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Larsinger58
HEAVEN:
Well this was an epic failure, being that there are 7 billion people on the Earth and only 2.5 billion of them are Christians. Something went horribly awry.LARS:
Good point, Heaven. But the context of the parable of the dragnet focusses on the harvesting work among the nations of Christendom. In the Bible, Christendom is represented by the "sea" and the WTS or Jehovah's recognized temple and the Bible are represented by the "earth." Thus the 666-beast is seen coming out of the "sea" represents the trinity doctrine belief by Christendom (i.e. 666 = three numbers yet one number). The Lamb-dragon beast seen coming out of the "earth" represents those associated with God's temple, which would mean the WTS.
Likewise, the dragnet represents the preaching wok done by JWs who cast their nets out into the sea and bring in fish which they dump on the beach. The beach represents the WTS. At that point the good fish are separated from the bad fish. This separation is the same as when christ comes to separate the sheep from the goats in this one particular flock, as well as the division of the five wise virgins and the five foolish virgins. This only means that everyone coming into the WTS is not automatically chosen and accepted. Some are true wheat and some are weeds.
Even so, it would seem the actual fulfillment of preaching the good news throughout the nations would be a reference to those nations who are Christians specifically, just as the 1st Century Christians while Jesus was alive were just sent to the Jews. So nothing is "horribly awry" here -- this was fulfilled as prophesied. It depends on interpretation.
But by specific note, when the Bible says the "good news" would be preached worldwide and "then the end would come" -- that was specifically fulfilled in 1947 when N.H. Knorr literally went on a worldwide preaching compaign. Later that year on November 30, 1947, the "end of the gentile times" occurred when the Jews were restored to their homeland. So the "end" is not Armageddon but the end of the gentile times which ended on November 30, 1947. And that very year the "good news" was preached worldwide by NH Knorr, fulfilling this prophecy specifically, but also generally, since that event showed the witness work had spread worldwide by this time, having started with just one congregation less than a century earlier.
All is well -- if you have he right interpretation.
Kingdom Proclamation Surges Ahead
With a view to worldwide expansion, on February 6, 1947, the Society’s president and his secretary, Milton G. Henschel, embarked on a 47,795-mile [76,916 km] world service tour. The trip took them to islands of the Pacific, New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asia, India, the Middle East, the Mediterranean area, Central and Western Europe, Scandinavia, England, and Newfoundland. It was the first time since 1933 that representatives of the Society’s headquarters staff in Brooklyn had been able to visit their brothers in Germany. Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world followed the two travelers as reports of the trip were published in issues of The Watchtower throughout 1947.
(Proclaimers, p. 98) -
AndDontCallMeShirley
Heaven: Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations. Well this was an epic failure, being that there are 7 billion people on the Earth and only 2.5 billion of them are Christians. Something went horribly awry
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Shhhh ! Don't tell the Christians, especially Jehovah's Witnesses.
This kind of news does not go over well.
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BluesBrother
On the 100th anniversary of the Watchtower magazine they printed a bumper special edition , in 1979:
"Keeping Watch for 100 Years" was the proud headline....That is how to turn an ignominious failure into something sounding like succsss.
Incidentally, notice the weasly way they discuss the Parousia and the expected dates for the end:
WT 7/1 p5
"From the outset, the Watch Tower showed that at Christ’s second coming his parousia would be an invisible presence as a mighty spirit person. (Matt. 24:3; 1 Pet. 3:18) Moreover, in keeping watch, this journal’s early issues (March and June 1880) pointed to 1914 C.E. as a climactic year. It was to mark the close of the 2,520-year-long Gentile Times, during which non-Jewish nations would rule the earth without interference by any kingdom of God."
Pointed to 1914...yes but in 1979 I was too innocent to know the old-light difference between the Gentile Times and the parousia, and that piece of sleight of hand passed me by..
Surely the 100th of Christ's Kingdom will be seen, even by them, to be a bigger event than that of their mag? I wonder what "special" they will produce then???
Well this was an epic failure, being that there are 7 billion people on the Earth and only 2.5 billion of them are Christians. Something went horribly awry.