WT August 15, 2013 QFR - Sitting next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings

by Designer Stubble 70 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Designer Stubble
    Designer Stubble

    Page 8 of the latest WT (insider version) has a whole page dedicated to the question whether it is appropriate to sit next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings.

    Not sure how to paste this in, but check jw.org. Perhaps someone can do this for me.

    Horrible, no words really on how pharisee like their CULT grip and control has become!

    First of all, without any shame they are talking about disfellowshipped MINORS. That alone is already absolutely wrong. This was my personal tipping point when I decided to leave the JWs. At the 2008DC browsing through the Appendix in the then new "God's Love" book and seeing how it said DFed MINORS should be treated. I can only hope that this article is the tipping point for a few more.

    This article appears to have been written as some were "stumbled" by seeing DFed minors sitting with their parents. How loveless can you get!!!

    John 13:35 comes to mind here (By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another). And the lack of this love alone shows me that Jehovah's Witnesses are not True Christians !!

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Just a copy and paste....but here it is.

    ? There is no reason to be unduly concerned
    about the seating location of a
    disfellowshipped person in the Kingdom
    Hall. This magazine has made every effort
    to encourage Christian parents to
    provide spiritual help to their disfellowshipped
    child who is still living at home
    if it seems fitting to do so. As indicated
    on pages 19 and 20 of the November 15,
    1988, issue of The Watchtower, parents
    may even study the Bible with a disfellowshipped
    minor who continues to live
    with them. It is hoped that the child will
    thus receive the encouragement necessary
    to correct his course.
    When it comes to Kingdom Hall seating
    arrangements, it would seem reasonable
    that a disfellowshippedminor could
    also quietly sit with his parents. Since it
    is not required that a disfellowshipped
    person sit at the back of the hall, there
    should be no objection if a disfellowshipped
    child sits next to his parents,
    wherever they are sitting. As the parents
    care for their child spiritually, they certainly
    would want to make sure that he
    is getting the most from the meetings.
    Having the child sit with them rather
    than leaving the young person unattended
    elsewhere may be helpful in this regard.
    What, though, if a disfellowshipped
    child no longer lives with his parents?
    Although this article refers to the disfellowshipped
    minor as a male, the points presented also
    apply to a female.
    Would this circumstance make a difference?
    In the past, this magazine has
    clearly stated the proper attitude that a
    Christian should strive tomaintainwhen
    it comes to association with a disfellowshipped
    relative who is not living at
    home. However, the situation in which
    a disfellowshipped person sits quietly in
    a seat next to his relatives for the duration
    of a meeting is far different from
    the situation inwhich the relatives needlessly
    seek out his company to associate
    with him. If the faithful members of the
    family have the proper attitude toward
    their disfellowshipped relative and they
    are endeavoring to honor the Scriptural
    counsel concerning association with
    him, there would seem to be no reason
    for concern.—1 Cor. 5:11, 13; 2 John 11.
    Whether a disfellowshipped person
    sits next to a relative or next to any other
    member of the congregation should not
    be a cause for concern as long as he behaves
    properly. Restricting where a person
    sits could give rise to various problems,
    depending on the circumstances.
    If all present, including faithful relatives,
    are endeavoring to respect Bible principles
    relating to disfellowshipping, and it
    is not becoming a cause for stumbling to
    the brothers, there is no need to make
    an issue of the seating arrangements of
    those attending Christian meetings.
    See The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, pages
    29 and 30.
    This updates what was published in The Watchtower
    of April 1, 1953, page 223.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Q UESTIONS FROM READERS

    Would it be appropriate for Christian parents to

    sit with a disfellowshipped child at congregation

    meetings?

    There is no reason to be unduly concerned

    about the seating location of a

    disfellowshipped person in the Kingdom

    Hall. This magazine has made every effort

    to encourage Christian parents to

    provide spiritual help to their disfellowshipped

    child who is still living at home

    if it seems fitting to do so. As indicated

    on pages 19 and 20 of the November 15,

    1988, issue of The Watchtower, parents

    may even study the Bible with a disfellowshipped

    minor who continues to live with them.

    It is hoped that the child will thus receive

    the encouragement necessary to correct his course.*

    *Although this article refers to the disfellowshipped

    When it comes to Kingdom Hall seating

    arrangements, it would seem reasonable

    that a disfellowshipped minor could

    also quietly sit with his parents. Since it

    is not required that a disfellowshipped

    person sit at the back of the hall, there

    should be no objection if a disfellowshipped

    child sits next to his parents, wherever

    they are sitting. As the parents

    care for their child spiritually, they certainly

    would want to make sure that he

    is getting the most from the meetings.

    Having the child sit with them rather

    than leaving the young person unattended

    elsewhere may be helpful in this regard.

    What, though, if a disfellowshipped

    child no longer lives with his parents?

    Would this circumstance make a difference?

    In the past, this magazine has

    clearly stated the proper attitude that a

    Christian should strive to maintain when

    it comes to association with a disfellowshipped

    relative who is not living at home.* (* See The Watchtower,

    September 15, 1981, pages 29 and 30.)

    However, the situation in which

    a disfellowshipped person sits quietly in

    a seat next to his relatives for the duration

    of a meeting is far different from

    the situation in which the relatives needlessly

    seek out his company to associate

    with him. If the faithful members of the

    family have the proper attitude toward

    their disfellowshipped relative and they

    are endeavoring to honor the Scriptural

    counsel concerning association with

    him, there would seem to be no reason

    for concern.—1 Cor. 5:11, 13; 2 John 11.

    Whether a disfellowshipped person

    sits next to a relative or next to any other

    member of the congregation should not

    be a cause for concern as long as he behaves

    properly. Restricting where a person

    sits could give rise to various problems,

    depending on the circumstances.

    If all present, including faithful relatives,

    are endeavoring to respect Bible principles

    relating to disfellowshipping, and it

    is not becoming a cause for stumbling to

    the brothers, there is no need to make

    an issue of the seating arrangements of

    those attending Christian meetings.#

    #This updates what was published in

    The Watchtower of April 1, 1953, page 223.

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/

    Pretty much what was true in my last congregation 12 years ago; minor df'd children sat with parents wherever they sat; the family was not required to all sit in the back bcause of the df'd minor child. A df'd 19 year old child living outside the home also sat with their parents, quietly.

    I can remember the question of whether a "faithful" wife could ride in the same car and sit with their df'd spouse in years gone by.

    *** w53 4/1 p. 223 Questions From Readers ***

    In this section of the November 15, 1952, Watchtower it was stated: “The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one.” Does this mean that if the man of the house is disfellowshiped, but attends the meetings at the Kingdom Hall, the faithful members of the family may not ride with him in the family car when he drives there?—O. G., Kansas.

    No, that is not the point The Watchtower was making. It said faithful members of the family “would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one”. Since the disfellowshiped one is no longer a participant in the meetings at the Kingdom Hall, and since it is no longer his rightful place of religious association, he having been disconnected from that association by disfellowshiping, and in attendance at Kingdom Hall now, not by invitation or welcome but by his unwanted intrusion, The Watchtower was not referring to his coming to Kingdom Hall meetings when it spoke of not accompanying him to his place of religious association. It meant that the faithful one would not accompany the disfellowshiped one to another religious group with which the disfellowshiped one might associate and in whose meetings he might participate. It is all right for the faithful members of the family to ride with the disfellowshiped one in a car bound for the Kingdom Hall, but upon arrival the faithful ones should not sit with or associate with the disfellowshiped one at the hall, but rejoin him only when departing for home.

    *** w59 7/15 p. 448 Questions From Readers ***

    If an individual is disfellowshiped, but continues in quiet attendance at the Kingdom Hall, is it proper for that one’s marriage mate to sit with such a one during the meetings?—J. F., Switzerland.

    With a view to helping sincerely repentant ones to get back into proper relationship with Jehovah God and his organization, it has been the policy of the Society to permit disfellowshiped persons to be present at all meetings at the Kingdom Hall that are open to the general public. For married persons Jesus set out the proper viewpoint when he said: “Did you not read that he who created them at the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.” (Matt. 19:4-6) This rule would seem to apply at the Kingdom Hall as well as elsewhere. In view of this it would seem to be improper to force a separation between a man and his wife even if one or the other is disfellowshiped. This is not having fellowship spiritually on the part of the faithful one with the disfellowshiped partner. However, it would be wrong for the individual who is in good standing to try to force the company of the disfellowshiped mate upon the other brothers and sisters in the congregation in the endeavor to have them recognize the disfellowshiped one and have communion with that one.

    minor as a male, the points presented also

    apply to a female.

  • clarity
    clarity

    Man .....this is making me sooooooooooo mad!

    A disfellowshipped CHILD....a child. Your child, my child!

    http://childrensrightsportal.org/child-rights/

    Sick bosturds!

    clarity

  • Listener
    Listener

    "he having been disconnected from that association by disfellowshiping, and in attendance at Kingdom Hall now, not by invitation or welcome but by his unwanted intrusion"

    It is hard to understand why the JWs allow a df'd person to participate in their most sacred service, they aren't being thrown out of the congregation if they can still attend and yet the bible is clear about not associating with the wicked one. The Kingdom Hall is all about christian association and serving God as a group. The above quote goes some way in explaining why a disfellowshipped person is allowed to attend a religious service at the Kingdom Hall, that is, they view him as an unwanted intrusion.

    The hypocrysy displays itself again. The person is both an intruder and is not wanted there. However, in order to be reinstated that person must attend the meetings regularly for a period of time. So even though they are not wanted there they are actually wanted there in order to prove their sincerity.

    If only they took the time to understand what the bible has to say about association they might get their policies right.

  • barry
    barry

    The most telling point here is why do they have to even talk about such issues. Why do they have to in this artical mention it is required the person "behave". what standard are they using apparently their own standard. What if the person has some grievance how does he or she express it?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Whether a disfellowshipped person
    sits next to a relative or next to any other
    member of the congregation should not
    be a cause for concern as long as he behaves
    properly.

    By "behave properly" do they mean, look suitably downcast, generally ashamed of themselves, and certainly never try to engage others in any conversation whatever?

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    Talk about splitting hairs. Just like the Pharisees...

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    No child, should be baptized.

    "When you are baptized, you become an ordained minister, by the holy spirit of God", which then gives the Governing Body a free hand, to disfellowship you, if they want.

    No child baptized = no child disfellowshipped .

    Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me". He didn't say so they can go to him to become little ordained ministers.

    Jesus was a man of 30 when he was baptized. That way, no one could bring up all the troubles he had gotten into with raging hormones, coming in late from being with a girl, getting caught for smoking a water pipe, borrowing his dad's donkey without asking, and not putting it back in exactly the right stall and same condition, as when he had borrowled it in the first place, plus all the other fun stuff kids liked to do 2,000 years ago.

    Easy - peasy life. Children, easy lesson. If you don't want to get disfellowshipped, do not get baptized!

    Just Lois

  • innerpeace
    innerpeace

    Weird how they said 'this magazine' a couple times. It's like you better listen to 'this magazine' or else!

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