23,720 JW child molesters

by silentlambs 62 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Xenu

  alamb:

  You stated the following.
  

  If the numbers are wrong, let the people who know prove it.

  In a court of law, I believe the accused are given the benefit of doubt. It is up to the accuser to show proof. In this case, it is up to Bill Bowen to show proof of the figures. The Watchtower Society has been accused of many things. And they have decided not to answer many things. The WTS can't spend its time trying to answer those that accuse them of everything under the sun, such as harboring 23,000+ molesters.
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  JT

  PRIVATE REPROOF

  i would like to see how these ones will be handled- will wt do like the Church and turn them in?
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  silentlambs

  The trolls are hoping today....
  In my response to giving the numbers I took the time to give substantial background as to how a person is added to the "specialized shepherding arrangement," the reason is to help the reader to understand how a person is qualifed to be placed on the list.

  It is true if I just gave a number it would have reason to be called into question, but you have been given background that no one has known up to this point unless you were an elder who has went through the process. The litmus the some are proposing on this thread is absolutely absurd to say the least. If that same litmus was applied to the sl website and the stories therein, it would cease to exist. It is the collective of all the material that puts together the picture that wt policy is hurting children. For those of you who wish to ignore the collective mountain of evidence and say you need more proof, I would suggest your immediate return to the organization and full time service. The governing body needs more like you.

  The 23,720 is real whether some of you like it or not. No mountain of names or computer print outs would satisfy your litmus of proof required for you to believe it. Yet it is part of the collective that screams to everyone else there is a horrid problem with wt policy. Sadly some of you are deaf and hear nothing. I stand behind my statement and my commitment to stop wt policy from hurting children. What the hell do you stand for??
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  MavMan

  Bill: Please don't get mad because some of us question your numbers and sources. Path, xenu and MCcoullough have made some well-thought posts on the issue. Here is what your site says about the source of information:

  I was contacted by three different sources who claimed to have connected with people inside the headquarters

  So you are the third person down the line. Is that real proof? Your sources could have received bogus information and you are repeating this.

  you have been given background that no one has known up to this point unless you were an elder

  It's true that you give a detail description of the process taken by the elders when someone confesses or someone is accused of child abuse, but that does not make your number of 23,720 more credible. You say that the process is some sort of secret. Well, this is not true as the elders in my congregation explained this process to the entire congregation in a local needs part.

  For those of you who wish to ignore the collective mountain of evidence and say you need more proof

  You are right, there is evidence that some children have been abused sexually. But there is also evidence that were the law requires it, these abusers have been turned into the authorities. There is also evidence that judicial committees locally do scripturally discipline these wrong doers. Whether you agree with it or not does not erase these facts.

  The 23,720 is real whether some of you like it or not.

  Again, just because you say so does not make it true.

  I do appreciate that you posted the process that the Watchtower has when dealing with a child abuser. This information is valuable to those that are investigating this issue as it shows that the brothers are doing something about these evil doers. I understand you don't fully agree with them and you want more done. Still, they are doing some things right. The elders calling the legal department to receive guidance is very important. Instead of leaving things in the hands of local elders, some of which do not have the abilities or knowledge to handle these cases, each case is given the amount of importance it neads to be handled properly according to human-law and divine law.

  The trolls are hoping today

  Just because someone disagrees with you, does not make him a troll. This is a bit childish, and I was surprised to see it coming from you. But I understand the emotions involved in these cases and your desire to protect little ones.
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  Xenu

  Although not trying to change the subject. I have noticed many on this board tend to use the word troll alot when someone has a different opinion or if someone doesnt change a certain viewpoint.
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  silentlambs

  A troll is someone who secretly supports the WT agenda at all costs. They have frequently in the past as now come on the boards to give misinformation and misdirect the focus of valid and legtimate issues that show error in the organization. When someone or a collective group together challenge minor details while overlooking the major proof at hand, they reveal themselves.

  The posts above that defend wt policy as being fair or good to a large extent are an excellent example of such. I encourage those who read this information to take careful note of what is avoided in the challenges that are given to what we say about wt policy. Much like the wt articles, the points seem valid but you have to look deeper and see what they are not saying, therein lay the problem.

  Carefully placed wording to imply wt is basically doing the best they can and then demanding proof in totality before any statement can be believed. Does that sound familiar? Perhaps like a judicial investigation to determine allegations of abuse? Does this not help any reader to see who has the agenda and who they are working for? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is probably not an innocent person just searching for truth.

  WT POLICY SUCKS!

  For those of you who wish to defend it you need to educate yourself about it. Read my website and when you come to a real education on this topic then if you are not a troll you will stop acting like one.
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  joelbear

  I don't question the numbers. If anything 1 in 130 is probably low.

  However, I would point out that 1 in 130 of any randomly selected group of people would also yield at least one child molester.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are a heterogeneous group made up of people of all walks of life. The Watchtower likes to present them as 6000000 united individuals which is simply not true.

  I continue to point out to Bill (although without much hope) that he should stick to his one central premise which he wishes to change, that is specifically the policy of the Watchtower Society on

  a) getting help for the abused child
  b) getting punishment for the proven child abuser

  He continues to paint himself publicly as a man who will say anything to paint a bad picture of the Watchtower society, which while possibly fun and as rewarding to him as squeeling his tires in a Kingdom Hall parking lot, does nothing for his cause.

  Joel
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  silentlambs

  Gee whiz some folks just cannot seem to read.
  _________________________________________________________________
  WT POLICY SUCKS!

  For those of you who wish to defend it you need to educate yourself about it. Read my website and when you come to a real education on this topic then if you are not a troll you will stop acting like one.
  _________________________________________________________________
  My point and purpose has been the same since day one, to change wt policy in the interests of protecting children. In the process we also help victims and warn others. I make no other attack on any other aspect of the organization. Anyone who reads any post I have ever made should know that except a few with the agendas described above. Let the reader use discernment.
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  plmkrzy

  You know what Bill, not that you would give a rats arss, but after reading your latest response and the way you have chosen to address decent people who obviously care, I have to take your link off my web site.

  I know that doesn’t mean a lot to you but it should.

  I cannot with a good conscience be supportive of such pure hatred.

  As a victim I know FIRST HAND the value of accuracy when it comes to self-defense in a society such as the one that we live in.

  Your biggest concern
  as an advocate for victims should be centered on accuracy and fact-finding because that is what will ultimately make the difference in the end. Not your personal opinion.

  At the rate your going you will need a miracle to help you in your quest to use victims to achieve your personal goals because without at least a miracle I can't imagine you accomplishing anything outside of extreme disappointment.

  I sincerely hope that any victims you have been able to snow will wake up and get away from you before they loose their hope for any justice on their behalf.

  Any one close to you will loose all credibility and be looked at as just another liar in the scheme of things.

  I don't personally know the victims YOU
  personally know but after corresponding with you and paying closer attention to you I can say with extreme certainty that I care more about their well being then you do.
  I feel really sorry for you Bill.
  If your only defense is to call me a troll then knock yourself out.
  I am a real survivor you are an ambulance chaser.
  So call me a troll.

  
  

  No matter how thin you slice it there are always two sides
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  amccullough

  Bill -
  

  A troll is someone who secretly supports the WT agenda at all costs.

  The term troll is used on all NGs to denote someone stirring up trouble. On this board the term "troll" is usually used to discredit an opposing opinion. However, an opposing opinion does not make a person a troll. You accuse of supporting the WT agenda at all costs, however some of the posters with opposing opinions to yours are definitely not Pro-WT. Please be careful that you are not doing the opposite...supporting the anti-WT agenda at all costs.

  When someone or a collective group together challenge minor details while overlooking the major proof at hand, they reveal themselves.

  I don't consider accusing ANY group of people that they are harboring over 23,000 child molesters a "minor detail." I consider that a serious allegation and would want to know the facts before I believe it. Being told that it came from a friend from a friend does not fly. Even if you have a heaping mound of other evidence, using unfounded facts to increase that mound only spoils it.

  Carefully placed wording to imply wt is basically doing the best they can and then demanding proof in totality before any statement can be believed. Does that sound familiar?

  Yes. It sounds like the United States Judicial System.

  WT POLICY SUCKS!

  For those of you who wish to defend it you need to educate yourself about it. Read my website and when you come to a real education on this topic then if you are not a troll you will stop acting like one.

  I have read your website, despite it being difficult to follow because of the way it is organized (a little customer feedback for you.) It seems to me that despite past policies, current policy has the elders contact the legal department. Once they are verified that they are a legitimate elder and it is a legitimate accusation, then they are told to inform the authorities. I'm not sure what else I could expect from the WT policy wise.