But Satan DIDNT lie!???

by mrbunyrabit 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • whichway2go
    whichway2go

    Interesting thread, but I always thought the lie was the "you will not die" part. This could be a self fullfilling thing since I think God killed her for it, right?

    Poor thing, I think she did die, or at least may be in critical condition from that poisoned fruit, I haven't seen her walking around here lately..

    Genesis Chapter 3:3,4

    But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden,+ God has said, ‘Y OU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’”+ 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “Y OU positively will not die."

    Disclaimer, this really doesn't matter to me much. And while I am still not certain of what I beleive anymore, I am definitley inclined to discount pretty anything attributed to Moses' wrtiings at this point.

    ww2g

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    But, ww2g I will play devils advocate. After eating of the knowledge of good and bad tree, they could have also eaten from the immortality tree. And should have if everything is exactly as the bible says, then god wouldn't have stopped them. It was only later according to Moses that they were shut out of the garden by angels with weapons. Now why Satan didn't suggest that they eat of the immortality tree I have no idea. But, if you take the bible literally as witnesses do then they could have at that time eaten of the tree of life as well. Then they would not have died. So Satan was guilty of saying they wouldn't die and then they died, technically making himself a liar. But, it would be like me saying that a snake bite won't kill you. Then you let it bite you and don't take the anti-venom sitting right next to you and you die. Technically I lied and your dead, but you could have easily lived and then I would have been right and not guilty.

  • whichway2go
    whichway2go

    Haha exactly, you can keep the story going forever, as a child I asked about them eating the fruit and was shown the bible story book picture of the them being locked out, and angels twirling the swords they invented to protect the even tastier tree of life. Poor guys were not fast enough even in there amazing state of perfection, lol.

    Can't be a literal story, just wanted to point out that I do not think it is not a good topic to pick on with a jw that has faith, if that is your goal (finding these things are mine!) they'd call you out on that point quickly, and boom - mind shuts down, and you better back pedal quickly.

    Your story about the snake bite is spot on, but a JW will go back to simple. Ate tasty fruit = Dead. And no matter whose fault it is, both of the supposed fruit thieves are no longer with us dispite Satans promise otherwise.

    I'm trying to be careful, and pick battles and subjects that I have read the heck out of, both on JW side, Christianity and sometimes Mormons just for the fun of it. A lot of the fun has to do with delivery. Sound really puzzled, and don't give too many answers, just more questions. There are other topics that you can discuss that really don't have anything close to a answer on, and they really make people think and wonder. Sometimes they say they aren't even going to talk about that subject at the doors since it makes no sense, until they can understand it. I've got a small list going of ones that worked well, and some that I had to abort, haha. I'd post, but that risks identity which I don't want to do now. Later on, or after time passes and I'm outta of my current mode I suppose.

    One thing, I swear a at least one person in the cong must be here or at least be onto the TTATT. I so wanted to ask him, but that could blow up, so best not to. I'd swear they are fading too, but maybe just crappy meeting attendance and a bad attitude could be to blame to, who knows.

    ww2go

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Mrbunnyrabit***** 1. Men DID become like God..- 2. Men DID get to know good and evil- 3. Their eyes DID open- 4 They could have eaten from the tree of life and live forever***

    1. A lie.....God is a consuming fire, inherently immortal......Adam and Eve are dust.

    2. True....humanity got TO CHOOSE what THEY considered good and bad....and look at the consequences !!

    3. True.....To a loss of innocence.

    4. False..God gives eternal life as a reward, you don't give your car keys to a baby. The tree of Life symbolized Christ that faithful mankind was predestined to recieve in the garden or later. Adam, was a pattern of the one to come. Romans 5:14...

    1 Corinthians 15: 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we [g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

    Satan can be an angel of LIGHT OR NEW LIGHT....Caveat emptor

    Shalom

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    Living forever while under the control of a master who does little experiments to test your loyality would be hell. Would be like the rat in the cage, rewarded for hitting the right button and zapped for hitting the wrong one. Soon the rat does as it is told, to avoid pain, but not because it wants to or is happy. Adam and Eve are my hero, the first to say (even in myth)...

    "I will not go blindly in the the future, I will not be a toy to a master... I will stand up and do what I want, I will decide my own fate and I will live my life and be me. I will not such for the person you want me to be, I will create the person I want to be."

    Praise free will!

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    Pterist- I don't see you can decide the tree of life was figurative but Adam and Eve and their sin is not.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Comatose ***- I don't see you can decide the tree of life was figurative ****

    And the tree of Knowledge of "good and evil is literal" ? ..(.rethorical question )

    Tree of Life, Living Water, Bread from Heaven, eat my flesh, drink my blood, ALL figurative for the gift of eternal life aka Holy Spirit that begets a higher quality of enduring Life. 1 Peter 1: 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed (figurative), but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

    “All people are like grass, (figurative)
    and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
    the grass withers and the flowers fall,
    25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.” [c]

    And this is the word that was preached to you.

    John 3:

    12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

    6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit

    Ephesians 1:

    4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

    Shalom

  • mP
    mP

    PTerist

    he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ ,

    mP:

    So what happens to the women ? Do they all get sex changes ? Is it love to ignore half the world simply because they are female ?

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Mp *** So what happens to the women ? Do they all get sex changes***

    God is asexual, Spirits are asexual. Can you not concieve of Conscious Intelligence without gender ?

  • mP
    mP

    PT

    I didnt ask if god was asexual, stay on topic.

    I was referring to the text that quite clearly targets only men for a special adoption with jesus. If god wanted to open that opportunity to everyone he should have been more clear with his choice of words and made sure the author wrote down the right thing.

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