Interesting. I was studying Genesis this week and thought the very same thing. To me, it was deception by making the truth of the consequences seem like a good thing. To make breaking God's one rule appear to be a good thing could be considered a lie. Skillful, indeed.
But Satan DIDNT lie!???
by mrbunyrabit 52 Replies latest watchtower bible
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glenster
I don't see the word "liar" in the passage--the serpent is called "crafty."
However, the serpent claims the knowledge gained will insure their inherent
immortality. But it's a lie since it encourages them to indulge human selfish-
ness and betray God so they lose immortality from Him.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIVA more general interpretation for the fall is that human selfishness is common,
and overindulged it's a curse. -
darth frosty
One of my favorite topics! Just to share some worthy previous disscussions:
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AndDontCallMeShirley
The Genesis account never names Satan. It merely mentions a talking "serpent". Satan is implicated only by inference later on.
God also stated later in the Bible that he does not make sons pay for the sins of their fathers. Yet, the entire account of Adam and Eve completely contradicts that statement! Biblically, all human 'sons' are paying for the sin of their father- Adam. Again, god is the one not being truthful.
God also asserted that he would allow Satan full reign over human affairs to prove the issue of "universal sovreignty" (according to WT theology). This is also a lie. God allows things to run freely- until they start to go a way that he doesn't like. Then god has no problem meddling in human affairs to change the outcome (The Flood; The Tower of Babel; the Israelite extermination of pagan nations; constantly excusing King David for sins that should have resulted in his execution, etc.). Hardly a fair game.
Gos asserts repeatedly that his way is the best- but over and over again god's way fails. This failure actually began well before humans existed. Does anyone really think Satan and his fellow angel's rebellion started at Eden? It is only logical to conclude it started long before human appeared on the scene. Fail.
Adam and Eve- Fail.
The Flood- fail.
The time of the judges- fail
Nation of Israel- fail
Christianity- fail ( only a little over 60 years after Jesus' death a full-blown 'apostasy' eviscerated the new religion (according to WT)).
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
It's a Stone Age legend. This was written way before our modern comic book technology which has the idealized superhero opposed by an certified supervillian. If Superman had been written into Genesis as a hero, his only superpower would have been the ability to talk to plants, drown small children, and kick puppies.
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talesin
I don't usually engage in Biblical discussions - that is not my forte - but I have to say,,,,
This is one of the BIG problems I have with the Biblical "account" ............... the serpent DIDN'T LIE ... and Satan NEVER LIED.
Good post!
xo
tal
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Comatose
ADCMS - we agree completely. I'll add to yours allowing the demons to hump earth women and create monster kids who ruin the earth. God allowed that, then supposedly said no more to stop it from happening after the flood. As if he couldn't see that would end bad in the first place. I mean wow, women are very enticing and evil creatures to make an angel who never even knew what a physical body was want one and then an earthly carnal sin. It's like beastiality would be for us, but they were perfect.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
Comatose: I'll add to yours allowing the demons to hump earth women and create monster kids who ruin the earth. God allowed that....
Since sexual desire is a response to the influence of hormones, isn't that account implying angels have hormones? How can a spirit creature have physical human chemistry? That would indicate they are not truly spirit. It's absurd. And, how bad did things in heaven have to be that angels desired to live as humans, knowing full well it was temporary but their punishment everlasting? Wow.
Additionally, all of this is occuring as god sits idly by as an observer. Only when things supposedly go completely off the rails does god intervene. The wicked angels fly off safely back to Heaven while all humanity (except 8 people) are drowned. Nice.
Not only did adults merit god's wrath, but apparently children, infants, animals and plants also deserved destruction. Moral of the story: don't irritate god- his tantrums are deadly.
And, what about these accounts is supposed to endear us to god?
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Seraphim23
The problem here is the taking of Genesis literally even though it is parabolic. Jesus didn’t as he obviously knew the Pharisees were not literally the children of a serpent. The lie in Genesis by the serpent Jesus explains in his parable of the prodigal son. The lie is an implied lie, not contained in what the serpent actually says but what he implies by saying it. The serpent implies that God is withholding something unfairly from his children in order to not let them be like him, to keep them down, to not love them as children who have equality with parents in principle but not yet in practice, who will inherit everything a Father has, to be like God when they grow up. The truth though implied by the prodigal son parable is that this was not the case. The lie results in spiritual death which means not knowing one is with God or being away from God in feeling and so on.
The whole parable of Jesus including the Genesis one is themed around a family structure with parents and children, and the serpent is like the naughty neighbour who kills good relationships in that family by driving a wedge in.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
"The problem here is the taking of Genesis literally even though it is parabolic."
Most Christian religions, including JWs, do accept it as literal and formulate doctrines around it. No where in the scriptures is the Edenic account treated as a parable. I'm not saying it's literal, just reporting on what's said.
"The lie is an implied lie"
Is that similar to kind of pregnant?