Enemies Of Reason -Richard Dawkins
by frankiespeakin 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Cold Steel
And this is why God never ceases to reveal Himself to witnesses (small "w") throughout the Ages. In Moses' day, seventy elders of Israel saw God, and in Jesus' day there were the healings, miracles, transfiguration on the Mount, and when people like Saul added their voices to the mix it becomes even more impressive. I don't think God hides from anyone, but the entire idea about being here is to learn to live through faith.
Science has always been more blind than insightful. It only believes what it can see or detect. That's why it's always being misled and surprised. How many times in the last decade have I heard that this or that will rewrite scientific books in various fields. I kept my Astronomy textbook I'd used in 1974 as a student in college because of my interest in the subject. But when I got it out in the 90s, it was so out of date I tossed it in the trash. Not small things, either.
Speaking of college, I was on the University paper, which reported that a certain professor of ancient scripture made a controversial statement about a geological issue. The head of the Geology Department shot off a letter to the paper suggesting the professor, whose expertise spanned the arts, sciences and history, limit himself to his own academic field. Words were said and one thing led to another, and finally a debate was called for. I didn't attend, but I understood it was a decisive victory...for the ancient scripture professor. The geologists showed up with their textbooks and the professor showed up with a Dutch science journal he'd been reading. There, in a peer-reviewed article, was the evidence. Those geology people had to sit there and not only eat crow, but listen to the kindly professor's admonition to appeal to their latest journals, not their dusty textbooks.
Humiliating.
The truth is that if God emblazoned incontrovertible evidence across the heavens, many would still reject Him. And in the day of judgment their condemnation would be swift and sure. Not that they would burn in an everlasting hell, but there would be eternal consequences to their ability to progress. To prevent that, the Lord has hidden both His existence and right to rule from unbelievers. That way, there will be mitigating circumstances for them and rich blessings to those who find the hidden truths of revealed religion (and there's a big difference between revealed religion and organized religion). When our evangelical friends talk about Hell and burning I cringe. At our stage of development we're not capable of bringing down that kind of judgment. It would be like killing an infant for having the colic!
We need men of science. We need skeptics. But for Dawkins and his friends looking down their collective snoots because they don't believe in fairy tales, well, they will have to eat a bit of crow. (On the other hand, if we religionists are wrong, well, no one will ever know, will they?)
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therevealer
Well . . . that pretty much settles it huh?? Cold steel is dah man. Do you have a church where I can attend and learn more???
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Seraphim23
I tend to agree with the sentiment of Cold Steel. Atheism is just like a religion and it seems to think believers are all fundamentalists which they are not of course. Proving that serpents can’t talk seems like a victory against faith but it its only one against fundamentalists. Many Christians don’t take it literally. I believe in the supernatural for example but I also don’t believe Satan exists.
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return of parakeet
I don't think God hides from anyone, but the entire idea about being here is to learn to live through faith.
Based on what?
Science has always been more blind than insightful. It only believes what it can see or detect.
Yet here you are communicating with others through science and technology. Do believe your doctors are more blind than insightful? Do you pray instead of depending on medical science when you and your loved ones get sick?
I understood it was a decisive victory...for the ancient scripture professor. The geologists showed up with their textbooks and the professor showed up with a Dutch science journal he'd been reading. There, in a peer-reviewed article, was the evidence.
What article? what evidence? what debate? Details, please. A general summary is not very convincing.
The geologists showed up with their textbooks and the professor showed up with a Dutch science journal he'd been reading. There, in a peer-reviewed article, was the evidence. Those geology people had to sit there and not only eat crow, but listen to the kindly professor's [ancient scriptures expert] admonition to appeal to their latest journals, not their dusty textbooks.
What university is this? Wattsamatta U? Again, details would be nice.
The truth is that if God emblazoned incontrovertible evidence across the heavens, many would still reject Him.
If the evidence were incontrovertible, why would anyone reject it? I wouldn't. Speaking of which, why doesn't God provide such evidence?
And in the day of judgment their condemnation would be swift and sure. Not that they would burn in an everlasting hell, but there would be eternal consequences to their ability to progress. To prevent that, the Lord has hidden both His existence and right to rule from unbelievers.
If God is deliberating hiding from humanity, that puts the blame on him if people don't believe in his existence. That's one devious and vicious god you're describing.
That way, there will be mitigating circumstances for them and rich blessings to those who find the hidden truths of revealed religion (and there's a big difference between revealed religion and organized religion). When our evangelical friends talk about Hell and burning I cringe. At our stage of development we're not capable of bringing down that kind of judgment.
If God has "revealed" the existence of hellfire to evangelicals, why are they wrong and you right? And who exactly are "we" when you talk about bringing down judgment on unbelievers?
It would be like killing an infant for having the colic!
But your god would damn them all the same.
We need men of science. We need skeptics.
You just said science is "more blind than insightful." So why do "we" need it? And why do "we" need skeptics? If science is blind and skeptics are to be judged and damned, why are they necessary?
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return of parakeet
seraphim: " Atheism is just like a religion... "
Please explain my religion to me. I didn't know I had one.
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speargrass55
1. Science is not blind.
2. Everywhere we look, there is intelligent design. Scientists ascribe this to a 'what', while religion ascribes it to a 'who', God.
Like return of the parakeet, I hate when religious nutters beat on science, when science has given us all we have of value today. Organized religion has fought tooth and nail against knowledge which would uplift our race.
Assuming god exists, and the Bible is correct, the first sentence in the Bible is " in the beginning god created...". If God created man in his image then our ability to create is what distinguishes us from all other animals including apes and dolphins. So all the science-bashing is plain stupid.
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return of parakeet
Cold Steel: " I don't think God hides from anyone ... the Lord has hidden both His existence and right to rule from unbelievers. "
Would you care to explain this contradiction?
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Seraphim23
return of parakeet if it wasnt like a faith you wouldnt feel the need to ask me that question as it wouldnt bother you what I thought.
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Satanus
' The truth is that if God emblazoned incontrovertible evidence across the heavens, many would still reject Him.'
Yabbut, when was the last emblazoning in the heavens? Regular heavenly emblazonings over some of the major cities would do a lot to change peoples' thinking. Sadly, there havn't been any. Gods efforts into heavenly emblazonings would NOT be a waste. Guess, he is too tired.
S