If reality is Gods imagination then experience is from his imagination. However that experience from his imagination can’t be real experience because it comes from him to begin with. So asking how God can know anything before he created anything is the same problem as this. We can’t be smarter than the source because we can’t even understand how this can be solved being slaves to knowledge that is not rooted in any kind of reality that is real reality, according to this way of thinking.
The Small Quiet Voice
by Satanus 70 Replies latest jw friends
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Satanus
My answer would be, is god creating something different from him imagining something? How would we know the difference?
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Seraphim23
Well that’s my point, we can’t be certain of a conclusion either way. If it is different from God, then it is a form of reality and not imagination and people can be real, and if it is the same as God nothing new in terms of experience will be created because it comes from God to begin with therefor no advantage in bothering.
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Satanus
'We can’t be smarter than the source because we can’t even understand how this can be solved being slaves to knowledge that is not rooted in any kind of reality that is real reality, according to this way of thinking.'
We could be smarter than it because of evolution. As individual units, we could be evolving through our experience.
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Satanus
'if it is the same as God nothing new in terms of experience will be created because it comes from God to begin with therefor no advantage in bothering.'
My thought is that all is 'god'. Therefore, the above would apply.
The advantage to the source in making these realities, would be the exploration of possibilities for its awareness. Through these experiences in these possibilities, its self awareness expands. Another word would be GROWTH. It grows. Its more of an organic process than one of manufacture as bible based people tend to see it.
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Seraphim23
If its evolution through experience, or growth through the exploration of possibilities, it is still fake experience if reality is not reality. Plus when all said and done and all units of life go back to the source, it will realise it is completely on its own because all others were in fact itself, and all is pointlessness trapped in a near infinite memory of fakeness.
What if you are partly correct with the addition that reality is in fact reality, and individuals are real individuals in their own right?
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nonjwspouse
My own inner vice was warning me when I was dating my now husband. I rationalized my children were almost grown ( youngest 14) and that I was in a position to be the breadwinner because I knew he really didn't have a real clue how much money it takes to provide for a family ( though he thought he did) . I was finshing up my graduate degree and on the track to a nice career after staying home with my children.
The kids liked him a lot, he liked making me dinner, cleaning the house for me, etc, things I wasn't used to but definatly could get used to. I could handle being the main breadwinner when he took over those things, and still maintained his own current businesses.
When I heard he was raised a JW I almost stopped dating him but rationalised he had been out so long it was not a big deal. There wouldn't be an issue of how to raise children. He never interfered with my children, ever. He was someone they trusted and liked though.
I didn't listen to my inner voice, married, and at over 40, unexpectedly, became pregnant. My career path was stopped. I couldn't work while pregnant, then had to listen to my own moral compus and needed to stay home with this child too. Each year after he turned 4 I would attempt to find a job, fail, then rationalize things would get better with his business with me helping out. That didn't happen.
Then he became interested in the JWs again...began changing his personality, at first demanding I convert and begin teaching our child the JW doctrine. Uh No!...All hell broke lose. We are both emotional wrecks. Older parents of ours getting sick now adding to the stress.
Yes, not listening WILL come back to bite you.
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Watkins
Aah - you guys are all smarter than I! BUT doesn't it stand to reason that if we ever start thinking we're more intelligent than the Source - God, because I'm a believer - then isn't that a sure sign of ego, our false self? I'm not seeing humans becoming better through evolution... can't see that far into the future and it really doesn't look that way, to me, from our past... but there's lots I don't know, lol. Was thinking of a verse - don't know where it is - that says 'we all stand naked before God'. 'Naked', without pride or ego - our true selves, warts and all, without excuses to 'cover-up' with. That makes sense to me, but it may not even be close to what you're talking about??? Sorry if not... X watkins
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Satanus
'If its evolution through experience, or growth through the exploration of possibilities, it is still fake experience if reality is not reality. Plus when all said and done and all units of life go back to the source, it will realise it is completely on its own because all others were in fact itself, and all is pointlessness trapped in a near infinite memory of fakeness.'
Dunno. Perhaps, everything works in cycles. First, the big expansion/growth to whatever is the maximun; then the big contraction. Perhaps, its an eternal oscillation. If so, then, the contraction could continue past the base level and into the negative, below the base level, down to the maximim limit of the negative, and then start an upward swing, again.
'What if you are partly correct with the addition that reality is in fact reality, and individuals are real individuals in their own right?'
The holographic universe idea and fractal principle for the universe blur whether we can be sure if reality is real. In other words, i'm not sure if reality is real. There are laws which govern how things work. Do they make it real? Maybe. Even games have rules. Rules in games are what make them interesting/challenging. Rules of games are decided at the beginning of each game. The laws of the universe are there from its beginning. Perhaps, different universes would have different laws than this one does.
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Satanus
Watkins
I'm sorry, smart is the wrong word. I know i used it, because it was being used. However, its not the right idea. Awareness is the right idea, imo.
The reason i stated that was because of the condition of the universe and the suffering on this planet. Besides the human suffering, the suffering of animals is built into the system. Basically, everything eats everything else. Its a big friggin, living food chain that we have here. We are fortunate in that we are generally at the top of it. And so, all the destructive forces that are ongoing says a lot obout whatever processes brought into existence the universe.
Most of us don't like to see suffering, yet whatever brought the universe together put suffering in there. If we built universes, i think that we would try to do better.
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