My chat with an Elder about the UN thing! Help!

by awakening 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    There's currently another thread going on this subject that was started 2 days ago:

    The WT's excuse for their NGO affiliation with the UN was supposedly to obtain a "library card."

    But when you compare that to the fact that, if any R&F JW went to the YMCA to go swimming they would be labeled an apostate and summarily DF'd, then we get a sense of the hypocrisy going on here!

    • " In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization . He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25). Nor is his membership merely an entry pass , as when a person buys a theatre ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy ." - w79 1/1 p. 31 - [Emphasis added]

    This is excerpted from a letter dated March 4, 2004 from Paul Hoeffel, the then Chief of the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) Section of the U.N. Department of Public Information. It was written in response to "numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI)."

    The letter states:

    "This organization [the WTBTS] applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities." - [Emphasis added]

    In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:

    • that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;

    • operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;

    • have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;

    • have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.

    [End excerpt]

    Also, it is significant that during this period the WTBTS published many articles, mainly in the Awake!, that were very pro-UN. If the NGO association was done by a rogue "someone at the Branch" in Bethel, how did they get the Writing Department in on the act?

    BS Detector

    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    See also:

    The article that broke the story:

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    Here is a link that will tell you all you need to know,

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php

    The WTBTS were also slamming the Catholics Church for having 24 groups signed up with the UN, this was brought out in one of the mags, and was a quote from a book. What they forgot to quote the preceeding sentence from that book that said that these groups were NGOs/ Within the year the WTBTS signed up as a NGO.

    :Ast page or 2 of the elders book, Shepherding the Flock talks about one who joins a non neutral group as disassociating itself. They incriminate themselves.

    The real crux of the matter is to find out why they signed up, and it was not to gain access to the library as brought out in the jwfacts.com link.

    NJY

  • Ding
    Ding

    The elder instinctively followed Rule #1: "The organization must be protected at all costs."

    If he honestly believes his own lame answer (which he may), then I truly feel sorry for him.

  • Wholly
    Wholly

    I asked my Bible Study Teacher if she knew the WTBTS was affiliated with the UN as an NGO beginning in 1992 and continuing for nine and a half years.

    Her response to me was "You really have to consider the source. The apostates distort the truth, if you want to know the truth about that we can talk." I responded, "Of course I want the truth that is why I asked."

    She then stated "Apostates tried to claim that the Branch was a member of the UN when it actually was they were members of a news group that gave news access privileges for writing purposes. About 10 years ago the Brothers stopped renewing their press privileges." I said, "Then it is true."

    Her response: "Apostates are crafty and their "strong evidence" is information that is either outright lies or information taken out of context. This is a classic example of that." She then continued with a non-sequitor as an example of how that works with worldy, disgruntled folks whose intent is to stir other people up under the facade of "helping others.

    I said I feel sick about this. We are taught to be no part of the world. Being a member of the UN for ANY REASON is hypocricy.

    She said "We each have to decide who we will believe. I personally believe that Jehovah is using this organization today to teach the truth. And like Peter told Jesus (when some chose to stop following Jesus) "Lord whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life" John 6-60-70.

    I asked why we need a mediator between us and Jesus. She said we don't, Jesus is our mediator, that's why we pray through his name. I said then, "If the organization is teaching the truth how are we following Jesus?" She then shut the conversation down, telling me I'm listening to words of Satan and she wants nothing to do with it, she is on Jehovah's side. I thanked her for her time and cancelled my Bible Study.

    I then asked my baptized, pioneering (in March) sister (in another state) if she knew about it. Her response in a nutshell parallelled that of my Bible study teacher's except she said this, "I don't believe it, I can't and I won't."

    I find this whole incident disgusting and it has made me very upset, sad, depressed and afraid (for all those stuck inside).

  • Dismissing servant
    Dismissing servant

    Wholly, this is the so called cognitive dissonance. You can have show them how much evidence/proof you wish, they just don't accept it. It will break their hopes of eternal life, so they can't handle such evidence. As she herself put it:"Lord whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"

    Obvious facts doesn't promise eternel life, but the society does....therefore they prefere to belive the society, even if it is blatant lies.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Wholly - I sympathise with you. It IS sad and depressing for those stuck inside. I was sad and depressed as a JW. I knew about the UN thing but swallowed the party line of 'library ticket' because I believed that they were on my side.

    It's only now I realise the WBT$ only wanted my money.

    I remember my first time in church I gave to the collection (we were told we didn't have to). In my mind I was thinking: 'Up yours Governing Body, you're not getting your paedophile protecting hands on this money!'

    I'm now atheist....so no one gets my money!

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    wholly: My Bible Study Teacher ... then stated "Apostates tried to claim that the Branch was a member of the UN when it actually was they were members of a news group that gave news access privileges for writing purposes.

    Uh, no!

    An NGO of the UN is NOT a "news group" in any way, shape or form!

    wholly: My Bible Study Teacher: "Apostates are crafty and their "strong evidence" is information that is either outright lies or information taken out of context. This is a classic example of that."

    Um, who is guilty of outright lies here?

  • 88JM
    88JM

    Wasn't there also thread more recently with possible evidence that they were still an NGO even now?

    Something about one of their representatives attending an NGO meeting? Or was that my imagination?

  • Wholly
    Wholly

    I have none of these publications and therefore, cannot confirm their existence or what is stated in them. Hopefully, some of you may have them and be able to confirm for yourselves (and us) whether or not this information is accurate.

    Where is the proof that they regularly disseminated information on United Nations activities?

    The proof is in the literature they printed during their time of membership. Below is a small sampling of the various articles they published which satisfied the UN/NGO criteria. Because we do not want to overstep the Fair Use of Copyright laws we will not publish whole articles, however you can view snippets of some of these articles here:

    Awake! July 22 (2001) pp.3-5.................................................Helping Hands Are Everywhere
    Awake! January 8 (2000) pp.20-21........................................"Mothers With AIDS Face A Dilemma" Awake!: December 8, (2000), pp. 3-9................................... Series of Articles
    Awake! May 22 (1999) pp.4-9...............................................By the Sweat of Children
    Awake! January 8 (1999) p.13................................................Rights Without Responsibilities?
    Awake!: November 22, (1998), pp. 3-11 ............................. Series of Articles
    Awake! February 8 (1997) pp.14-17......................................When Land Turns Into Desert
    Awake!: April 22, (1996), pp. 4-7 ....................................... “Who Can Bring Lasting Peace?”
    The Watchtower: October 1, (1995) pp. 3-5 ...................... “Fifty Years of Frustrated Efforts”
    Awake! July 22 (1995) pp.4-8................................................Man's Fight Against Disasters
    Awake! May 8 (1994) pp.4-8.................................................Efforts to Save the Children
    Awake! February 22 (1993) pp.4-6........................................Children -- Assets or Liabilities?
    Awake! December 8 (1992) p.3-7 .........................................Small series of articles
    Awake!: September 8, (1991), pp. 3-4, 8-10 ....................... Small series of articles

    Although this isn't a complete listing of all the United Nations-friendly articles that the Watchtower Society published during their time of NGO registration, this list shows that they did, indeed, fulfill the requirement to disseminate information regarding United Nations activities and programmes.

    http://witness-outreach.com/UN.html

    Email us: [email protected]

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    I just want to thank Punk for offering up the term, "butcher's hook."

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