The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet .. yes/no

by refiners fire 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf
    *** w81 12/1 27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***

    Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.

    Absolutely true! An extremely rare thing that happened in my neighborhood just in the last two weeks demonstrates it to be true. I was literally shocked that a couple of women from a local church knocked on our door. My wife answered the door. They were contacting the neighbors to invite them to a picnic being held in a nearby park, which was free to attend. They left a brochure. The brochure spoke of their belief that Jesus was God, in the flesh. That God died.

    Yes, the quote from the ’81 Watchtower above is as true as can be. I know the truth about who God is, and that Jesus is not God. I know that God has NEVER died, nor can he die. How did I come to know that, and yet THEY don’t know it? Because they are not “in touch with this channel of communication that God is using”. It’s a fact! Live with it! Yes, “no matter how much Bible reading [they] do” they do not progress.

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    AlanF

    Given these considerations, I think that a good Biblical definition of "prophet" is "anyone who claims to speak in the true God's name".

    Do you agree that if he speaks in the Authority of Ezekial, he is still a false prophet?
    After all, he is not speaking in Jehovahs name, but is speaking in the place of Ezekial, and thus is one step removed from God.
    Does this fact exonerate the prophet from qualifying for the famous criteria at Duetronomy 18 v 20 "but the prophet who speaks a word in my name".
    See, Ezekial is not God is he.
    Is speaking in Ezekials name the same as speaking in Gods?
    It is not.
    Rather it is the effect that speaking in Ezekials name has upon the sheep. The sheep hear "Ezekial" and they think "God".
    Isnt that so?

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    The WTS is God's Organization simply by reason of the fact that it is GENUINELY WILLING TO BE USED by God. Those representing the Fellowship Baptist Church (that I mentioned having come to my home and neighborhood earlier) obviously aren't being used by God, even if they do feel like they are. If they genuinely wish to be used by God, then why are they so much a part of the world? Why do they promote man's system, and shed blood in warfare between nations? Why don't they know what the Bible has to say about such basic things. Why is it that whatever they see the nations practicing, they envy them and want to practice those things too -- the Saturnalia (aka Christmas), Halloween, etc.?

    Yadirf

    .

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • ISP
    ISP

    Yeah sure the WTS is a false prophet.

    ISP

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    Does anyone here believe that The organization has ever claimed to recieve any of its information direct from God?
    they have not.
    if you do think that, references, please.

    What part of sole channel of communication do you not understand?

    *** w99 11/1 17 Benefits From Loving God's Word ***
    11 The only sure way to retain God’s Word in our heart is to read and study it both privately and in association with fellow believers. This includes taking full advantage of the spiritual food provided through the channel appointed to care for the spiritual interests of Jesus’ true followers.

    *** w99 12/1 15 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation ***
    And just as Jesus used “his slave John” to communicate sustaining spiritual food to the first-century congregations, so today he uses “the faithful and discreet slave,” made up of his anointed “brothers” on earth, to give his domestics and their companions spiritual “food at the proper time.” (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) Happy are those who recognize the Source of the ‘good gifts’ we receive in the way of spiritual food and the channel He is using.—James 1:17.

    *** w97 6/1 14 A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep! ***
    But how thrilling to know that Jehovah, in his own due time and in his own way, will continue to reveal his secrets as to his purposes! Never should we become impatient with Jehovah’s arrangement, indiscreetly trying to rush ahead of the Revealer of secrets. How reassuring it is to know that the channel Jehovah is using today does not do so! It is both faithful and discreet.—Matthew 24:45; 1 Corinthians 4:6.

    *** w96 12/15 15 Taught to Do Jehovah's Will ***
    From Pentecost onward, Jehovah has progressively been revealing “the deep things of God” contained in his written Word. (1 Corinthians 2:10-13) This he has done through a visible channel that Jesus termed “the faithful and discreet slave.” It provides spiritual food that is considered in the teaching program for congregations of God’s people worldwide.—Matthew 24:45-47.

    *** w95 5/15 21 Flashes of Light-Great and Small (Part 2) ***
    In 1917, Jehovah’s people published an explanation of Revelation in the book The Finished Mystery. It fearlessly exposed Christendom’s religious and political leaders, but many of its explanations were borrowed from various sources. Still, The Finished Mystery served to test the Bible Students’ loyalty to the visible channel Jehovah was using.

    *** w95 7/1 19 "The Israel of God" and the "Great Crowd" ***
    17 Are anointed Christians on earth a priesthood? In a sense, yes. As a congregation, they serve an undisputable priestly function. Peter explained this when he said: “You yourselves . . . are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood.” (1 Peter 2:5; 1 Corinthians 3:16) Today, the remnant of anointed Christians as a body are “the faithful and discreet slave,” the channel for the distribution of spiritual food. (Matthew 24:45-47) As was the case in ancient Israel, any who wish to worship Jehovah have to do so in association with these anointed Christians.

    *** w95 8/1 16 Taught by Jehovah Down Till This Day ***
    Jesus went on to describe the means by which this worldwide preaching and teaching program would be directed. He spoke of “the faithful and discreet slave” that would serve as a channel, or instrument, to provide His servants with spiritual food. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47) Jehovah God has used this “slave” to oversee Kingdom interests throughout the earth.

    *** w95 8/1 16 Taught by Jehovah Down Till This Day ***
    Jehovah uses this “slave” as his means of teaching people today. Those of the slave class adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931. Since then millions have associated with them and have accepted that name and joined in proclaiming God’s Kingdom.

    *** w94 10/1 8 The Bible-A Book Meant to Be Understood ***
    All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.

    *** w92 11/15 19-20 Serve Jehovah Loyally ***
    One observer noted that these men “were critical of the articles in The Watchtower, not wanting to accept it as . . . God’s channel of truth, always trying to influence others in their way of thinking.” However, loyal elders never try to influence others to reject any of the spiritual food provided by God through the faithful slave.
    8 As Jehovah’s dedicated Witnesses, all of us must be loyal to him and to his organization. We should never even contemplate turning aside from God’s wonderful light, pursuing an apostate course that can lead to spiritual death now and eventual destruction.

    *** w91 3/15 22 Who Really Have a Heavenly Calling? ***
    God has a channel of communication through which he provides spiritual food for his earthly organization. (Matthew 24:45-47) So nobody should think that being an anointed Christian gives him wisdom superior to that of the “great crowd” with the earthly hope.

    *** w91 9/1 18-19 Jehovah and Christ-Foremost Communicators ***
    That faithful and discreet slave is represented today by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, which has as its publicity agent the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Most appropriately, that faithful and discreet slave has also been called God’s channel of communication.

    *** w90 10/1 30 Do You Follow Instructions? ***
    We should follow the instructions that the Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ, gives through “the faithful and discreet slave,” the appointed channel of God’s organization here on earth.

    *** w87 6/15 20 Testing and Sifting in Modern Times ***
    Should we not be determined to stick closely to the channel of communication that Jehovah is using, accepting all such progressive enlightenments as “food at the proper time”?

    *** w87 7/15 19 Prayers Require Works ***
    Because Jehovah God does not give his holy spirit apart from his Word, and we cannot hope to receive holy spirit if we ignore the earthly channel Jehovah is using today, “the faithful and discreet slave,” represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Without help from this “slave,” we would neither be able to understand the full import of what we read nor know how to apply what we learn.—Matthew 24:45-47.

    *** w86 5/15 13 "The Things Revealed Belong to Us" ***
    Since 1914, we have been living in the time of the conclusion of this system of things. Hence, it is important to know whom Jehovah is using today as a channel for this new spiritual light.

    *** w84 7/1 15 "The Battle Is Not Yours, but God's" ***
    Has Jehovah provided a corresponding channel in the midst of his people today? To be sure, he has! Jesus made mention of this in his prophecy on “the conclusion of the system of things” in referring to the anointed “faithful and discreet slave” class, to whom the Master entrusts all his “belongings” here on earth.

    *** w83 2/15 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How? ***
    A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization.

    *** w82 6/1 20 Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order ***
    So how much better to keep busy in the primary work of proclaiming God’s wonderful kingdom, speaking upbuilding things, strengthening the faith of others and ourselves, while patiently waiting for Jehovah to work out his will through his appointed channel!

    *** w81 2/15 19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***
    If we have once established what instrument God is using as his “slave” to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the “remnant” and of the “other sheep,” than anywhere else upon earth.

    *** w81 12/15 25 Zealous for "the Work of the Lord" ***
    The Watch Tower of October 1, 1909, had this to say:
    “Our friends insist that this Scripture indicates that in the end of this Gospel age the Lord would use not many channels for the dissemination of the Truth, but one channel . . . They hold that all of them received their knowledge of Present Truth directly from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society’s publications, or indirectly through those who have received their enlightenment through this channel. They are glad correspondingly to co-operate as ‘fellow-servants’ with the Society’s work, believing that thereby they are following the leadings of the Divine Providence, as well as the instructions of the Divine Word.”

    *** w77 3/1 148 Right Qualities Needed to Judge ***
    Thus the judgment will truly belong to Jehovah, as expressed through his Word and earthly channel.

    *** w76 2/15 122 You Must Be Holy Because Jehovah Is Holy ***
    But Jehovah was interested in his people, just as in times past, so through his channel of communication he lovingly brought forward information to counteract the filth that could tarnish or cause his people to become unholy.

    *** w73 8/1 461 Cultivating Friendship with God ***
    Through Jehovah’s channel we receive ever clearer enlightenment on the Kingdom and its relation to the Christian congregation on earth.

    *** w70 2/15 113 "With All That You Acquire, Acquire Understanding" ***
    We will continue to find our principal channel of Bible instruction in the Watchtower magazine. Due to its objective viewpoint, Aid to Bible Understanding may show the fulfillment of prophecy in ancient times but generally will not go into the modern fulfillment, as do many of our other publications.

    *** w69 1/15 49 Are You Ready for the Responsibilities of a Baptized Witness? ***
    Such fine guides to accurate knowledge, provided by Jehovah as the Great Teacher through his channel of communication in the earth today, help us to appreciate what Jehovah requires of each person who loves him and desires to serve him.

    *** w69 8/1 476 Do Not Turn to Divination! ***
    Jehovah is the only source of dependable information on the future. He alone knows the end from the beginning. (Isa. 46:9, 10) More than that, through his channel of communication and his Word the Bible he lovingly reveals ahead of time what is good for man to know.

    *** w68 5/15 303 "Fear the True God and Keep His Commandments" ***
    For example, to be pleasing to Jehovah one has to recognize the earthly channel that God is using to dispense accurate knowledge to people of all the world.

    *** w67 10/1 590 Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization ***
    Evidences are now conclusive that Jesus Christ was enthroned in heaven in 1914 C.E. and that he accompanied Jehovah to his temple in 1918 C.E., when judgment began with the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17) After cleansing those belonging to this house who were alive on earth, Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave” and be submissive to it.
    20 Today those thus charged with this grand privilege and responsibility are called Jehovah’s witnesses, and have been since 1931. As a group they have been separated more and more from the sectarianism of Christendom from the 1870’s onward. Since 1879 the Watch Tower magazine has been used by this collective group to dispense spiritual food regularly to those of this “little flock” of true Christians.

    *** w67 10/1 591 Following Faithful Shepherds with Life in View ***
    We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his Word and channel of communication.

    *** w66 1/15 44 The Value of Right Association Through Congregational Meetings ***
    Never has God had more than one channel of communication at one time. Failure to recognize and associate with his anointed witnesses would certainly indicate that one is not in Jehovah God’s organization and under his spirit.

    *** w63 8/1 471 Observing Subjection in All Realms of Life ***
    But, above all, Christians must be in subjection to Jehovah God and his visible earthly instrument or channel.

    *** w62 4/1 215 Our Activation by Jehovah's Spirit ***
    More than that, for one to receive holy spirit he must also be in touch with God’s channel of communication. Just as in the days of Jesus and the apostles receiving of holy spirit was dependent upon contact with God’s channel of communication, his earthly representatives, so also today. The facts show that that channel is found with the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses.

    *** w62 12/1 726 Understanding the Beasts of Revelation ***
    Additionally, in interpreting Bible prophecy God has seen fit to use an earthly channel of communication.

    *** w62 12/1 726 Understanding the Beasts of Revelation ***
    we must conclude that God uses only one channel at any one time.—Matt. 24:45-47; 1 Cor. 1:10-13.
    That Jehovah is using such a channel today and that it is associated with the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses the facts unmistakably show.

    *** w61 6/1 341 Be Taught by Jehovah ***
    How does Jehovah teach us? Since he is the great Spirit whom it is impossible for us to see and yet live, he uses various instrumentalities, such as the “book of nature,” his dealings and providences, his holy spirit, his visible channel or earthly organization and, chief of all, his Word, the Bible.

    *** w60 7/15 439 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
    The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the “slave” class has served as God’s sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time. (Eph. 3:10) Abundant spiritual food and amazing details as to the doing of God’s will have been flowing through this unique channel actually as a miraculous evidence of the operation of holy spirit.

    *** w60 7/15 442 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
    There are several things one can do to stay awake and abreast. First, one should keep up with the “food at the proper time” supplied through God’s proved channel and published by the Watch Tower Society. One cannot afford to miss one spiritual meal.

    *** w59 1/1 30 Recommending the New Instead of the Old ***
    Jehovah in his wise and loving providence has provided us with new wineskins, a new channel or instrument especially adapted for our day, namely, the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses.

    *** w58 5/1 266 Honoring Jehovah with Our Valuable Things ***
    the channel that Jehovah is using today to make known his name and kingdom and to feed his people.

    *** w58 5/1 285 Living Up to the Name ***
    If we diligently plant and water, following the lead Jehovah gives us through his Word and his channel of communication, he will bless our efforts with growth until all his sheep are safely gathered into his New World society.

    *** w58 8/1 474 Baptism ***
    It is only through his channel of communication that Jehovah now is using that an individual obtains accurate knowledge of the truth;

    There are many many more, but these should more than suffice.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    The Watchtower many not utilize the exact words that they receive interpretation direct from God, but the implication is extremely strong that they claim too.

    How can God work through and communicate through the Watchtower only, and not be directly revealing interpretation to them?

    As far as I am concerned, it is the epitome of arrogance for them claim to be "God's Sole Channel Of Communication," yet deny they do receive direct revelation from God.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Refiners Fire said:

    : Do you agree that if he speaks in the Authority of Ezekial, he is still a false prophet?

    I have no idea what you're talking about. Please give me some context.

    The following threads contain proofs that JW leaders have claimed direct inspiration:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18851&site=3

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18415&site=3

    AlanF

  • butalbee
    butalbee

    I would love to shove the watchtower mag up an elders ass............OMG.

    Just ignore me...thanks...little frazzled tonight!

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Terribly sorry, my wife had me hanging a wall unit...and she must be obeyed!! further evidence that events in the real world dictate interpretations in the spiritual.

    AlanF.and all.
    The whole point of this thread was to see how many people were under the impression that the WT claimed that the GB talked with God themselves. This doesnt happen (so far as I know) they have never claimed this, but they insinuate God puts ideas into their minds and they recieve their direction thru a channel of spirit that is two or three steps removed from God.

    i have to tell you that, frankly I have moved away from Watchtower predictions and am looking at other churches and their predictions, looking for similarities in method.So WT quotes are not at my fingertips.However,Here is an example of what I mean,uttered by a Christian fundie called Norman Robertson.
    He says:
    "recognize that we in this generation have a distinct advantage over all previous generations because the seal of Daniel 12 verse 4 has been opened to us and so we can understand End Time Prophecy"
    He then goes on to mouth his own personal interpretations of scripture.
    Is he a false prophet because he quotes the Authority of Daniel and because he implies that the seal has been opened by God?
    Or is more needed to convict him?

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Yardif has solved everything? Question: do you believe that the WT prints the truth about God every issue all the time? Going by what you said above I see that the WT are the only ones that can teach you the truth about God. Who is God then? Who is Jesus? (don't say larsguy)

    I know the truth about who God is, and that Jesus is not God. I know that God has NEVER died, nor can he die. How did I come to know that, and yet THEY don’t know it? Because they are not “in touch with this channel of communication that God is using”. It’s a fact! Live with it! Yes, “no matter how much Bible reading [they] do” they do not progress.
    Found this for ya (written in 1500s)by a guy that said that in the book of daniel 12:1
    when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation...
    and the same guy wrote this:
    To take the matter from the beginning: "The Lord God" (literally, JEHOVAH, the GODS; that is, One and Three) "created man in his own image;" -- in his own natural image, as to his better part; that is, a spirit, as God is a spirit; endued with understanding; which, if not the essence, seems to be the most essential property, of a spirit.
    No wonder the WT gets Jesus & Jehovah mixed up!
    and this on
    On TRUE religion
    Here then we see in the clearest, strongest light, what is real religion: A restoration of man by Him that bruises the serpent's head [Gen. 3:15], to all that the old serpent deprived him of; a restoration not only to the favour but likewise to the image of God, implying not barely deliverance from sin, but the being filled with the fullness of God. It is plain, if we attend to the preceding considerations, that nothing short of this is Christian religion. Every thing else, whether negative or external, is utterly wide of the mark. But what a paradox is this! How little is it understood in the Christian world; yea, in this enlightened age, wherein it is taken for granted, the world is wiser than ever it was from the beginning! Among all our discoveries, who has discovered this? How few either among the learned or unlearned! And yet, if we believe the Bible, who can deny it? Who can doubt of it? It runs through the Bible from the beginning to the end, in one connected chain; and the agreement of every part of it, with every other, is, properly, the analogy of faith. Beware of taking any thing else, or anything less than this, for religion! Not any thing else: Do not imagine an outward form, a round of duties, both in public and private, is religion! Do not suppose that honesty, justice, and whatever is called morality, (though excellent in its place) is religion! And least of all dream that orthodoxy, right opinion, (vulgarly called faith) is religion. Of all religious dreams, this is the vainest; which takes hay and stubble for gold tried in the fire!
    Then you must check the WT's record for teaching what is right. Check how many times they have changed the speaker & meaning of Rev 22:12. Then without crossing your fingers while repeat your quote from above.

    Dakota, great list.

    I'm not sure which WT but one of my favourites is, regarding 1975 I think...

    They are God's dates not ours. We couldn't change them if we wanted to!

    Bullshit, they can & do change whatever, whenever. They prove themselves liars yet say they are used by God. There is only one "god" that would use someone to lie for it! the father of all liars. whats his name again?

    what say yardif?

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