by refiners fire 51 Replies latest jw friends
The Nations shall Know I am Jehovah:
page 292 : “ There is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us...........Concerning the message faithful delivered by the Ezekiel class Jehovah positively states it “must come true....”
“ What is it to be gained by hesitating and doubting to the end that Jehovah can raise up and has raised up a genuine “prophet” within our generation?”
Okay.
Im doing a terrible Job in this thread I know.
Let me explain,Im totally convinced that the Watchtower is a false prophet. But I am also of the opinion that they have never claimed to print anything directly revealed by God. God himself doesnt TALK to the GB. He just guides their paths.
Lots of stuff been posted here, let me look at it, back soon.
“ Anyone reading the Bible can see that God’s prophets where never inspired to speak a mixture of truth and error, their statements needed no “later editions” that are corrected to wipe out or cover over false reasonings.”- ICOCF
What is the biblical definition of being a “genuine Prophet” as the WT claims they are? They have made the claim!
Also see the June 15, 1964 WT page 365. The WT claims that God has “reviled his truths” to the WT Like the first century Christian congregation......that is a claim of divine inspiration.....
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet .. yes/no
Bogus Question.
Before even thinking about asking the question, evidence must be established that WTBTS Corportation marketing activities are any more prophetic than the activities of Johnson & Johnson, Proctor & Gamble, or Pepsi.
Flip
"Reveald Truth" is used many times by the WT. If it is revealed, who revealed it? The claim is that God did.
Your questions are not entirely straightforward to answer, Refiners Fire. The problem is one of definition. As one poster pointed out, technically a false prophet is anyone who makes a false prediction about the future. However, if I say, "Tonight I'm going to the movies" and something happens that prevents me from doing so, only a nut would label me a false prophet. There has to be predictions made in a religious context, or the concept of "false prophet" can become meaningless. Therefore in a Biblical context, we need to restrict the definition with respect to making predictions appropriately, to something like "someone who makes false predictions while claiming divine direction or inspiration". Note that "divine" can refer to any supernatural entity at all. This definition is in line with the notion of "false prophet" given in Deuteronomy 18. This definition precludes from being a Biblical false prophet someone who clearly indicates that his predictions are based on his own ideas not God's. One can simply dismiss such a maker of false predictions as a nutcase.
Another consideration is something that the Watchtower Society itself has pointed out, namely, that Biblically a "true prophet" is not just someone who makes correct predictions in God's name, but someone who in a more general sense truly speaks for God. Prophets like Jeremiah made plenty of predictions, but they also gave plenty of commands to the Israelites to quit doing evil and to obey God.
Given these considerations, I think that a good Biblical definition of "prophet" is "anyone who claims to speak in the true God's name". Thus a false prophet is anyone who claims to speak in the name of a false god, or falsely claims to speak in the name of the true God, and a true prophet is anyone who truly speaks in the name of the true God.
Note clearly: a claim of direct inspiration is not necessary. To make the claim of being a true prophet, one must claim that one's words are more than the product of one's own mind. One who claims direct inspiration is certainly claiming to be a prophet. One who claims "divine direction" above and beyond what one can read for oneself in the Bible is also claiming to be a prophet, because "divine direction" is inspiration.
With these definitions in hand, the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses are most certainly Biblical false prophets. They certainly claim to speak in God's name by reason of their claim to dispense spiritual food from God to the household of Christ. They don't merely claim to read the Bible and interpret it and dispense those interpretations -- they claim that God gives them special understanding that is not open to anyone else. Thus they claim, not the passive sort of "divine direction" that anyone who reads the Bible can claim, but an active direction, one that results in their having understandings they could not have arrived upon aside from supernatural guidance. This is the basis for their claim of "spiritual authority" since 1919 over all who would worship the true God properly.
JW leaders make these claims not only directly but indirectly. They directly make them by such devices as the current baptismal vows in which the new convert agrees to obey "God's spirit-directed organization" (i.e., the JW Governing Body which speaks via the Watchtower Society) in everything and forever. They directly make them via various Watchtower articles which state in so many words that all elders -- including and especially the Governing Body -- are divinely directed when acting on behalf of the JW organization. They make them indirectly by claiming that anyone who disobeys or disrespects them is also disobeying or disrespecting God, who put them in their position of spiritual authority. A JW will almost certainly be disfellowshipped for stating that he no longer believes that JW leaders speak for God, and disfellowshipping is a public statement by the JW organization that a person is cut off -- not just from an earthly religious organization -- but from God himself because the person has sinned against God. Clearly, disfellowshipping a person for not believing that JW leaders speak for God is claiming that they do indeed speak for God.
There is an extensive essay that covers this topic in detail, with plenty of quotations from Watchtower literature going back to their very beginning, at the website http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm under the title "The WTS and the End of the World". I also made a post several months ago about this, showing that J. F. Rutherford claimed direct inspiration by angels, but I can't find it right now (I'll look for it when I get a chance). You can also find extensive quotations (I borrowed from these for my post) at this link: http://www.premier1.net/~raines/guided.html . Good reading!
AlanF
Dazed and confused is not as confused as I am!
Heres one:
Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah by and through Christ Jesus and is given to the faithful anointed
on earth at the temple,
A quote that refects my view.
Thi chi:
There is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us...........
And it is an intermediary class between the GB and God.
Jehovah is not claimed to be in direct communication with the GB. Jehovah is in communication with Christ and the 144,000, and the remnant of this 144,000 direct the org.
Thus there are some levels of command between Jehovah and the GB.
This is my view of all cults. Im not aware of any cult leader yet that is in direct communication with God. Theres always someone in between as an intermediary.
Alen F: Well written!
dazed.
But it seems certain that whenJesus came to his temple and began his work of judgment he would direct his holy angels to take the necessary action to cause the separation of the disapproved from the approved ones, and would use his angels to bear messages to them to direct the approved ones
Yet another level of heirachical seperation between God and the Masses.
One assumes the "approved ones' are the remnant, who direct the GB, who direct the org, who direct the sheep.
