by refiners fire 51 Replies latest jw friends
The problem is that they imply they are. They play on people's fear of displeasing God. They also say if you follow the organization, you're doing all God wants you to do.
That's what worries people most - do we really know what God wants? And then here comes this organization that seems to have the answers and it's so easy to follow because you don't have to think for yourself.
If it quacks like a duck...it's a duck.
For years the information contained in the WT was "inspired" just as the Bible was inspired and so because it came directly from Jehovah it was to be believed and obeyed.
thats what Dutchie says.
Anybody agree with that?
If you do. give me a reference.
(sorry, Im making this up as I go along)
Aunty says:
The problem is that they imply they areI agree. And as far as I am concerned, that is ALL they do.
the wt believe that all their information is direct from god.That it is a spirit directed organization with an anointed remnant who are responsible for dishing out the mana from heaven as it is revieled to them by the holy spirit.They also believe that even if they are wrong about things it is all part of GODs plan that they were merely being tested by GOD and eventually new light will be available so as to bring the critics to silence.At least that's what I deduced.
The fruits of a genuine apple tree are apples.
The fruits of genuine fig tree are figs.
The fruits of genuine false prophet are false prophecies.
Simple as that.
They will try to confuse the fruits of a bad sprit with the fruits of a false prophet.
A genuine apple tree dosent give pears.
A genuine fig tree dosent give mellons.
A genuine prophet dosent give false prophecies.
When faced with this delima the jws ask if the WTBS is a false prophet then where is the frutiage of their works, and point to the acts and ask what bad works do they permit?
But why should a false prophet necissarily give rise to adultery?
The fruits of a bad sprit are not to be confiused with the fruits a false prophet.
As far as I know people are a mixture of good and evil that is why they are capable of bad works. But because they are capable of bad works dosenot mean that they have to exhibit all of the fruits of a bad sprit to be a bad person.
There are certain things that come into black and whit catagories in the bible and this is one of them.
You are either true are false.
There is no middle ground when it comes to prophesy.
The watchtower claims to be a genuine prophet.
There are only two types of prophets.
True prophets and false prophets.
True prophets are 100% accurate.
They have to be. What would have happened if moses had been mistaken about the red sea parting? Even though he was accurate up to that point if he was wrong he would have cause the lives of untold numbers of people.
A true prophet has to be 100% accurate if not he/she is a false prophet.
No exceptions!
Even though prophets are inteled to voice their own opinion if they do so they do not equate their own personall opionion with the opinion with the opinion of God. Because the word of God is infallible not the word of just a man.
And even more importantly what would happen if someone who was considered to be a genuine prophet were to voice their opionion as the word of God and what he/she prophesized did not come to pass.
It would not reflect positively on the lord, it would make the lodr look like a liar. The Bible says that the lord cannot lie.
No matter how sincere no matter how much someone thought what they did would help people if it did not come to pass then the person is a false prophet.
A prophesy is either true or it is false.
A prophesy must happen EXACTLY AS PROPHESIZED with out modification.
If you said something would happen IN THE NAME OF THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and it dident happen EXACTLY as you said it would your are not intitled to reintrepret your prophesy because the Bible dosent teach that.
If that were the case there would be no distinction between a true prophesy and a false prophesy.
You know what will happen before it happens. That is what a prophesy is.
An exceptional case of a false prophet would be someone who presented his own views as the word of God Almighty and expected people to follow his commands as such. That is the worst kind of false prophet.
Also if you claim to speak for some one who is inspired and you misquote him I would think that that also would make you a false prophet.
Someone was commisioned to speak on the behalf of Moses do you not think that he also had to be 100% accurate.
The Bible is clear on this matter:
IF IT DOES NOT COME TO PASS EXACTLY AS PROPHESIZED IT DID NOT COME FROM GOD BECAUSE GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT BE WRONG
IF YOU CLAIM TO SPEAK DIRECTLY FOR A PROPHET OF THE LORD AND YOU SAY THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE WORD OF GOD AND THAT YOU ARE 100% POSITIVE THAT IT WAS FROM GOD AND WHAT YOU SAY DOES NOT COME TO PASS EITHER YOU ARE A FALSE PROPHET.
The amount of powere that comes with the position of the porphet of the lord is Great and so is the responsiblity. So measures have bee implemented so that this power is not misused.
DEUT 18-20-22
Anybody who does not pass this test and tries to make excuses for it is definately not from God.
Nathan gave his opionion and he was corrected the very same night.
Notice that he was corrected before the prophecy took place and not after.
The diciples were unshure about circumsicion and they corrected themselves.
If you cannot pass the test WITH 100% accuracy then you are not of God simple as that.
jerome
The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.
Heathen.
the wt believe that all their information is direct from god
I dont think so. Can you give me a reference where they say that?
That WT has indeed claimed that it "acts as a prophet." It also behaves as a prophet; and it has the expectations of a prophet. It also engages in propecy. Thus, it is a prophet by its own claims and actions and admissions.
They have never identified the mechanism by which God speaks to them. We don't know if they have a new Urim and Thummin, or just use plain ol' dice, or if they wave a dead chicken in the direction of Mecca, or contemplate the dust at the bottom of their navels, or what.
Anyway, it claims to be a prophet, and since NONE of its prophecies has ever come true, by this fact they are identifiable as a FALSE prophet.
AND, I say the WTBTS is a cult, and I say fuck 'em.
Francois
Can we at least say that the WT has promulgated false prophesy? Can we at least admit that the WT disfellowships for not believing their views?
If the answers are yes, then by what authority does the WT do these things?
PROPHETS?
*** w72 4/1 197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' ***
People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
refiner said:
"I agree. And as far as I am concerned, that is ALL they do.
They imply.Someone show me where they have directly stated they are inspired by God Himself."
(sorry I haven't figured out how to do the quote thing yet)
I think implying is worse. It's misleading. It's dishonest. It preys on people with limited education to discern what is really being said. I'm an example of this. I never realized all the double talk the WT puts in it's publications. But now that I've opened my mind, I see their words for what they are. I see what they imply.
*** w81 12/1 27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do
*** w19 4/1 6414 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995 CD-ROM]
... "Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?"
*** w30 8/1 239 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995 CD-ROM]
The Watchtower is the channel which Jehovah, our God, is using at this time to in the faithful remnant who are keeping the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
*** w30 9/1 203 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995 CD-ROM]
But it seems certain that when Jesus came to his temple and began his work of judgment he would direct his holy angels to take the necessary action to cause the separation of the disapproved from the approved ones, and would use his angels to bear messages to them to direct the approved ones as to what to do.
*** w31 11/1 327 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995 CD-ROM]
The Watchtower is not the instrument of an man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.
*** w33 8/15 247 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995 CD-ROM]
Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah by and through Christ Jesus and is given to the faithful anointed
on earth at the temple, and brings peace and consolation to them.
*** w52 4/15 253 Aids for Understanding Prophecy ***
19 When may prophecies be understood? The Lord said to Daniel, "O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end." (Dan. 12:4, AS) This indicates that the further fulfillments of the prophecies are sealed until the physical facts appear that begin to fulfill them. So the rule seems to be reasonable and certain that prophecies cannot be understood until they are in the course of fulfillment or until they have been fulfilled. Jehovah as the great Interpreter makes known the meaning of his revelations in his due time, and speculation by men cannot bring to light the true meaning of prophecy before time. Jehovah has provided a channel, the "faithful and discreet slave" class, who are given spiritual "food at the proper time", and this spiritual food includes among other things the understandings of the prophecies in the course of their fulfillments. (Matt. 24:45, NW) Jehovah's witnesses themselves are not nor can they be interpreters of prophecies. But as fast as the "superior authorities" Jehovah and Christ Jesus reveal the interpretations through their provided channel that fast do God's people publish them the world over to strengthen the faith of all lovers of righteousness.
*** w56 11/1 666 Turn to the New World Society ***
11 Who controls the organization, who directs it? Who is at the head? A man? A group of men? A clergy class? A pope? A hierarchy? A council? No, none of these. How is that possible? In any organization is it not necessary that there be a directing head or policy-making part that controls or guides the organization? Yes. Is the living God, Jehovah, the Director of the theocratic Christian organization? Yes!
12 Because of the vital fact that the law that governs the operation of the theocratic New World society is the Word of Jehovah God, and because of the fact that the heaven-enthroned Christ Jesus is Jehovah's Executive Officer carrying on his work in the earth, and because of the further fact that the spirit of God by Christ Jesus is operating through his Word and upon the hearts and minds of his dedicated servants, the New World society is theocratic, meaning "God-ruled."
*** w65 6/1 351 Questions from Readers ***
First of all, we must recognize what is meant when we say God's visible organization was made strictly or fully theocratic. The term "theocracy" means "God rule" or "rule by God."
*** w81 12/1 27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.
