The damage has to be evidence-based. Where's the evidence?
DFing....Human Rights Violation and DEFAMATION of character?
by Terry 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chaserious
I will take up your invitation to respond, Terry. I will first say that to the extent that you characterize the WTS as an abusive organization, I wholeheartedly agree. However, if you are arguing that putting someone in fear of dying at Armageddon is unlawful, just as it would be to put someone in fear of being executed by an imminent stoning, I will disagree.
The Model Penal Code (which most states either adopt or very closely base their criminal law on) defines assault (in part) as:
(1) Simple assault: a person is guilty of simple assault if he:
- (a) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
- (b) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or
- (c) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.
(Bold mine)
Lining someone up for a mock stoning is assault because they are in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Telling someone they are going to die at Armageddon is not. Imminent does not mean "we are in the last days". It must be almost immediately about to occur. Also there is no physical menace on the part of a judicial committee or other WTS officials. So that's where the illustration breaks down. Like jgnat, I am glad that the government doesn't tell religions what they can and cannot teach about what God is going to do, etc, etc.
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jgnat
Also, murder is criminal. Done inside or outside a religion, it is illegal. Canada has a criminal code which defines what is illegal. The US uses a different system varying by State.
"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell - Matthew 5:22
Jesus preached that the thought or the word was as evil as the act, but that has not survived to our current justice system.
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Terry
There are DF'd people who suffer Post Traumatic Strees Syndrome as a result of their ordeal at being accused, lied about, convicted, DF'd and losing their reputation, friends and prospects for a life among peers followed by the implied execution at Armageddon.
There are DF'd people whose marriages are destroyed.
There are DF'd people who commit suicide.
The spectrum of harm following a badly handled congregation judicial decision is a broad spectrum.
As a legal matter--the law concerns itself with damage and restoration.
The evidence is a question of BEFORE vs AFTER an incident.
The status of a human being who has suffered the loss of a job, spouse, friends, etc. and who has been labeled a mental defective is not imaginary.
Being treated by former "friends" as though you're evil and possessed by Satan is not imaginary.
BULLYING is all about what HAPPENS to a person targeted for abuse and the impact on that person's life and emotions and psychology.
The EVIDENCE is a matter of keeping careful records of who said what and under what circumstances. Names, places, dates.
This is a responsibility a falsely accused JW would have to undertake for themselves before going to a lawyer.
In the case of Child Abuse the Child Protective Services can be involved early. They can testify as to how something has gone down.
Elders can lie, manufacture evidence, collude, conspire and all these things are actionable.
The legal procedure is a matter of DETERMINATION and will. Finding the right attorney and keeping careful records goes a long way toward: EVIDENCE.
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Terry
There are members of this group who can tell their own story better than I can.
Several members not only follow abuse cases and track them carefully but there are victims here as well who can open our eyes
to the level of actionable malfeasance on the part of so-called JW elders who create unnecessary damage to human lives.
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Terry
How to Sue for Defamation
Steps
The Decision to Sue
- Study the differences between slander (spoken defamation) and libel (written defamation). If you have been libeled, you do not have to prove damages. If you are slandered, you need to prove the actual losses you have suffered.
- Gather evidence of the defamatory statements made against you. You need to prove in court that the defendant said or wrote the statements against you; the statements are not true; the statements caused harm to you, by damaging your reputation; other people heard or read the statements made against you.
- Make copies of the statements made against you and collect proof that the defendant is the one who made the statements.
- Gather documentation of the harm you have suffered -- this includes proof of how people treat you and harm to your business.
- Obtain written statements of witnesses (third parties) who either heard or read the defamatory statements made by the defendant.
Legal Representation
- Talk to an attorney who specializes in defamation, slander or libel lawsuits. He or she will be the best one to advise you about what your potential monetary award might be.
- Decide why you want to file a lawsuit for defamation. You stand a better chance of winning if your primary motive is to prove your reputation was harmed, rather than suing for monetary damages, vengeance or stopping the defendant from republishing the defamatory statements.
- Discuss additional considerations with your attorney. If the defendant is already looked at with contempt, a lawsuit might actually only republish the defamatory statements. Libel lawsuits are sometimes heard by juries, which are not always predictable in the decisions they make. Make sure you have no negative information in your past -- this could work against you during a defamation trial.
- File a lawsuit. The attorney you hire takes the evidence you have and files the "tort of libel" motion in court. This tort motion notifies the defendant that you intend to file a lawsuit for defamation of character.
- Negotiate a settlement, if this is possible. Once the defendant and his attorney see the proof of defamation, they may be willing to discuss a settlement and avoid a lawsuit. The defendant in your case may decide to go ahead with the trial.
- Proceed with your plans for the defamation lawsuit if the defendant refuses to consider settling the case.
- Discuss your options regarding trial by jury or a bench trial. A bench trial is a trial where only the judge hears the evidence and rules on whether you have suffered harm to reputation.
Tips
- In a slander situation, you have to prove special damage in all except 4 situations. These include: the implication that you have a contagious disease such as HIV or tuberculosis; that you have committed a criminal offense; that you are unchaste or that you have committed adultery; your professional reputation is called into question.
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Terry
I'm going to speculate here---so, take it for what that is worth.
There may well be hundreds if not thousands of legal cases the Watchtower Society lost on the local level (Elders in Kingdom Halls) which carried
a settlement which included a gag order with the damages in settlement.
This prevents any of us from actually knowing how widespread misconduct of elders has transpired and to what end.
I would posit that most (if not all) the changes within the organization since the Catholic Church suffered lawsuits and exposure publicly--has been a mad scramble to distance the upper eschelons from responsibility and legal exposure.
We might be amazed at the contagion of evil if we really heard the full story of abuse.
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Chaserious
There may well be hundreds if not thousands of legal cases the Watchtower Society lost on the local level (Elders in Kingdom Halls) which carried
a settlement which included a gag order with the damages in settlement.
Eh, these would have had to all settle prior to a lawsuit ever being filed, because once a complaint is fiied there is a record of it - something that I'm sure some of the WTS watchdogs would have picked up on. I am doubtful that anyone is ponying up to pay such claims just on the threat of a lawsuit being filed. The WTS doesn't even typically defend the local elders, so it's even less likely that local elders and congregations are rushing to settle claims before lawsuits are even filed and demanding gag orders.
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Finkelstein
Totally agree with you Terry , the psychological damage this particular religion imposes on to people is clear and apparent from many
perspective levels.
The power and outward striving devotion to the organization and its outward public image stands head and above people's own personal rights
and certainly takes on much more compassionate care, love and attention in comparison to individuals to whom its draws in and
eventually overwhelms.
There have been many that have wondered how does this religious organization get away with this ?
Even from non-jws its seems overtly cruel and insensitive to people's psychological make up.
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clarity
The words "Joe bla bla is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses"
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is open to interpretation ...isn't it?
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Those words heard by someone outside the jw religion, would mean
nothing more that Joe blabla quit the 'club' or was tossed out!
No big deal!
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To one who was or is an actual believing member .... much different
story!
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The whole wt society, an all who sail in her .................
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have been SET-UP! The whole thing is a set-up!
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Jehovah's witnesses have been set-up to believe that
lies ... are not lying.
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They believe that members who 'question' are mentally
diseased.
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They are set-up to believe the worst thing possible,
when they hear those words ..."joe blabla is no longer one of.....
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Those hearing don't think those words mean Joe is standing
up for TRUTH. That he can not go against his conscience, no
matter what the consequence!
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That he is a good, moral, loving
person ..........no! The prearranged set-up guarrantees, that
the jw's will display a hatred toward Joe bla bla that can last a lifetime,
and is enforced automatically & instantly the announcement is made.
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No thinking involved. The wt society already prearranged & commanded
how they will feel. And they do!
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So really, no contest, it is a set-up that guarantees punishment to
the depths of even actual suicidal death. They have been told even
GOD will not hear your prayers .... that's how you are hated!
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The general public just thinks you cancelled your membership!!!!!
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Well that depends on interpretation!
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"Defamation has to involve a false statement.
"______ is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" is not false. "
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clarity