Please worship our god or he will kill you!

by snare&racket 140 Replies latest jw experiences

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  PSacramento

  PSac - So are you asserting that believers are more loving than unbelievers, or that christians are more human, or that atheists don't live to make the world a better place?

  I am saying they SOULD BE, yes or at leats they shoudl actively TRY to be.

  WHat did Chrisyt say about those that ABide in Him and He in them?

  9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

  12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 This I command you, that you love one another.

  Yes, IMO, when we receive Christ and the HS we are to abide in Love, love is to direct us.

  I opnely admit that I myself ( I can speak for no one else of course), fail more than I succeed in this, I KNOW I can do better, but I am at times selfish and self-centred. I am much better than I was, I see this and those around me see this too, and for that I thank Christ.

  I think Him for His love and His strength.

  Now, I do NOT believe that atheists DO NOT make the word a better place, I knwo MANy that do, including you and others here.

  How do I knwo this? I know because I know of your love for others and your love for the truth and your love for your family and friends.

  You would not be here trying to help others get away from the WT if you did not love others.

  This is not a "us VS them" thing, so please don't take it that way.

  I am speaking that, IMO, a believer becomes ( shoudl become) a far better person than HE/SHE WAS ( not comapred to anyone else) when CHrist truly abides in them and they in Him.
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  Deputy Dog

  cofty

  ...or possibly he is describing the stereotypical self-righteousness of modern xtianity.

  I believe that the problem for "modern xtianity" is how it attempts to deal with free will, without accepting the glory for sanctification.

  Christians are no more virtuous than anybody else - where is the evidence of sanctification?

  Now, that is an interesting observation. Since sanctification would have to be a personal thing, it would be hard for me to see it in someone else, let alone judge it for myself (me not knowing where the other person is coming from or what God is planning to use him for). I don't believe virtue is the important issue (at least this side of glory), in fact, I believe "modern xtianity" has made virtue or moralism it's idol. Modern churchianity (I like to call it) simply puts people back under law keeping or puts them back into a performance based relationship with God instead of the love or family relationship God intends for his loved ones.

  According to the bible Jesus was sanctified while living among us, yet He, as God, was sinless. After all the term sanctified simply mean “set apart” for a purpose, not necessarily having much if anything to do with virtue. So I can agree with the first part of your statement.

  But your question “where is the evidence of sanctification?” really grabbed my attention. You claim you left “evangelical Christianity” after many years, so it appears (and I could be wrong) that you feel, as the title of this thread suggests, that the gospel of Christ is a performance based gospel? I can’t help but wonder if you were sold a bill of goods very similar in many ways to the one you left in the JWs.

  If it’s evidence you want for sanctification, I look to Christ and what he did. His life, death, and resurrection free me of that threat/sentence of death (“worship our god or he will kill you!”) as offered in the title of this thread. That’s how I’m different today, that’s all the evidence I need. I don’t know, nor do I worry any more about being “more virtuous than anybody else” that’s God’s job. I accept Christ’s righteousness as a gift and that’s enough for me.
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  PSacramento

  I think the "worship our God or He will kill you" is more directed at the readings liek those in Revelation.

  The JW notion that God will destroy all those that are not "true worshipers" of God, of course by that they mean anyone that is not a JW and worships THIER way and THIER view of God.
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  PSacramento

  It's to your credit that you see through the self-righteousness in so many of these posts.

  DD, Did you actually see my posts as self-righteous ?
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  THE GLADIATOR

  PSacramento As an observer your comments do not make you come across as self righteous. Rather they indicate that you strive to be a better person; the best you can be. Unlike an atheist with the same goal you believe that Christ can, through holy-spirit, help you to achieve your aim.
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  designs

  'Outside are the dogs' - Jesus, Rev.22:15

  Lovely, just loverly...
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  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  DD, Did you actually see my posts as self-righteous ?

  First, it's not necessarily directed at just you though the Pelagian theology you use comes accross to me and (I guess) to cofty that way.

  PSac - So are you asserting that believers are more loving than unbelievers, or that christians are more human, or that atheists don't live to make the world a better place?

  I am saying they SOULD BE, yes or at leats they shoudl actively TRY to be.

  WHat did Chrisyt say about those that ABide in Him and He in them?

  What else would you call it? Do you think you are more moral or virtuous? It looks like Humanism to me which I would say is a form of self-righteousness. I think Christians come off looking self-righteous to unbelievers with that type of thinking, regardless of their intent. I don't believe "abiding in Him" means "keeping" any moral law.
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  cofty

  You claim you left “evangelical Christianity” after many years, so it appears (and I could be wrong) that you feel, as the title of this thread suggests, that the gospel of Christ is a performance based gospel? - Deputy Dog

  On the contrary - By "evengelical" I simply mean somebody who believes in the inspiration of the bible.

  I believed in grace, preached on it & wrote about it. I believed salvation was a free gift and had nothing to do with any merit on the part of the individual xtian.

  I also believed that the HS should result in a growth of the fruitage of the HS and that ought to become evident in the life of the xtian.

  I look to Christ and what he did. His life, death, and resurrection free me of that threat/sentence of death

  Exactly - worship me or die. That is not a basis for a loving or familial relationship - it is a good foundation for Stockholm Syndrome that victims confuse with love.

  PSac - you cannot dismiss the element of eternal rewards v eternal loss without throwing out the entire NT

  So are you asserting that believers are more loving than unbelievers, or that christians are more human, or that atheists don't live to make the world a better place? - Me

  I am saying they SOULD BE, yes or at leats they shoudl actively TRY to be. - Psac

  Can you not see how arrogant that is?

  This is precisely the self-agrandising bullshit the JWs tell each other all the time.

  Christians are no way better people than unbelievers. Get over it.

  The holy spirit is nothing more than Dumbo's feather - "You have the magic holy spirit, you can be a better person."

  Its just another self-improvement gimmick.
• 

  PSacramento

  What else would you call it? Do you think you are more moral or virtuous? It looks like Humanism to me which I would say is a form of self-righteousness. I think Christians come off looking self-righteous to unbelievers with that type of thinking, regardless of their intent. I don't believe "abiding in Him" means "keeping" any moral law.

  No one is talking about keeping a moral Law, though we are told to do so by Christ, and I don't think that trying to be better than WE WERE ( Not better than anyone else) is self-righteous.
• 

  PSacramento

  Can you not see how arrogant that is?

  This is precisely the self-agrandising bullshit the JWs tell each other all the time.

  Christians are no way better people than unbelievers. Get over it.

  The holy spirit is nothing more than Dumbo's feather - "You have the magic holy spirit, you can be a better person."

  Its just another self-improvement gimmick

  .

  How is trying to be better than WE WERE and admiting we need help to do that, arrogant?

  A Christian is NOT better than an unbeleiver, nor is an unbeleiver better than a christian.

  As I said above, a Christian is suppose to be/try to be better than He/She was BEFORE they had Christ.