Discussion with family member who is an Elder in our congregation

Newly Enlightened

So about a week ago, I showed my cousin & her husband [An Elder in our congregation] the picture on pg 29 of our 4/15/2013 study WT and asked, "If Jesus is head of the congregation then where is he?"

After several minutes of searching, dead silence.

I then asked if they had heard the part on the 2012 Summer District conv the part about "Our spiritual mother, where the C.O said that "The bible by itself does not shine thru as life-giving truths just by itself." They were shocked and said that I must have misheard it because that would be apostasy. But they had an audio copy of the conv. and would listen to it and get back to me.

So cousin elder calls me this afternoon and says that yes, they heard them say that.

Me: Do you remember what you said that it would be apostasy?

E: I never said that, but now that I heard the entire thing it's like the Ethiopian Eunich and we cannot understand the bible without 'Mother's' help.

Me: But people have been reading and understanding the bible for thousands of years without the WTS.

E: But all your knowledge, where did you get it?

Me: From reading and studying the bible.

E: But who helped you understand all these deeper things of God?

Me: Russell started this religion and he didn't have anyone teaching him, he just started reading the bible and came up with his ideas.

E: but he studied the bible searching for truth with help of the holy spirit

Me: Russel was a whackadoodle that was into pyramids and Freemasons symbols [Told him to get his Proclaimer's book pg 88] You see his books at the top of the page? Those outstretched wings are the Egyptian Sun disk for one of their God's and the WT has mason symbols all over it how is that finding the truth. He took a little from every religion of the day

E: But like you he started without knowing and made some mistakes, like the pyramid thing, celebrating x-mas etc

Me: Yeah but I'm not starting my own religion claiming to be the ONLY channel thru God to salvation either!"

So, I will more than likely be hearing from our local elders. I did send my cousin & him the article from the Guardian magazine about the WTS being members of the U.N and he promised they would read it, but he doesn't believe it for a minute and told me so.

Point to all this. You cannot reason with the Jdubs. If they cannot hear the true shepherd's voice becasue of the WT cult brain washing then the error is their's.

Peace to all and may the Most High and Jesus bless you

whathappened

Well, this response is typical, isn't it, from cult members. He's an elder and he's in deep.

Sulla

The line of reasoning has to be like this, because it is preposterous. It can't make any sense.

There is a very old idea that you read scripture "with the church," meaning that you have to sort of ground the way you read with the way others have historically read scripture. The JWs, of course, don't have any time for that. But they insist that you read scripture the way they tell you to.

Thus, again, the central and unalterable dogma of the JWs: 1914. Without it, there is no JW church; that is why it cannot ever be changed.

DesirousOfChange

So, I will more than likely be hearing from our local elders.

If you do, and you aren't looking to be DFd, better just tell them you're "confused" about it all. Also better come up with a story where you got all that UN info, because I don't know that it's available from anywhere except "apostate" sources. Yeah, I know the Guardian is not an apostate souce, but how do you explain finding it there? Maybe some guy at work showed all of this to you.

Doc

OnTheWayOut

They were shocked and said that Watchtower never said such apostasy.

After relistening, they think "Well... okay, Mother said that but she had good reason."

Of course they remember never having said that it would be apostasy, their cognitive dissonance kicks in.

Whatever explanations Mother offered are now part of their full understanding. They engage in Doublethink, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink) accepting that the Bible is God's complete work, that men in Brooklyn are not inspired, yet what those men in Brooklyn write is further instruction from God.

If Mother says it is so, they accept it and now engage in Groupthink. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

God, Jesus, and the Bible, none of that stuff matters compared to whatever WT prints. That's their golden calf.

ruderedhead

Wow, the WT truly does a tremendous job of brainwashing, doesn't it?! They are presented with real, reasonable, logical, indisputable evidence, and deny it.

dazed but not confused

Point to all this. You cannot reason with the Jdubs. If they cannot hear the true shepherd's voice becasue of the WT cult brain washing then the error is their's.

I came to sites like this and JWFacts in the beginning to prove to myself that the JWs are right. I would have considered myself a JW apologist at first. It was pretty quick for me to realize and accept TTATT. While everyones situation is different, and you are probably right about not reasoning with these dubs as you know them better than me, sometime's they come around. I would suggest you keep helping them see the lies and problems with the org since you already opened pandoras box, that is until they turn you in for "apostasy." Good job and good luck with getting thru to them.

Theredeemer

Very sad. At first it would make me mad how they refuse to accept the fact, now, just sadness.

TheOldHippie

Excuse me, but is not the heading or title of the illustration "The earthly part of ......"

So why should my Lord Jesus Christ appear in an illustration of the EARTHLY part of it?

Discussion with family member who is an Elder in our congregation

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