Discussion with family member who is an Elder in our congregation

by Newly Enlightened 49 Replies latest jw experiences

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  sir82

  Me: Do you remember what you said that it would be apostasy?

  E: I never said that,

  I love this.

  It happens over and over agin.

  Tell someone a wacked out goofy idea, and they'll say "that's apostate thinking!" because it came from you.

  But show them the exact same identical wacked out goofy thought, same words, coming from the WTS, and the reaction is "oh how deep! Hey yeah, I get it, that totally makes sense!"

  Present with a wacked goofy idea of the WTS, without the filter of seeing it in print in a WT magazine, and 99% of JWs would reject the idea on the spot.
• 

  Newly Enlightened

  I was actually on the phone with him for 1 1/2 hours, but didn't want to write everything in a 'War & Peace novel' haha But the reason he called me was not only to tell me that he had heard the DC talk say that, but asked me if they had sent the letter to me that the Catholic Church is sending around to their priests. I don't know if this is world wide, this country, or only in our state, But I told him that they had not sent it to me, but would like it. in this letter the CC is telling their priests NOT to use the name Jehovah in their sermons anymore becasue it is an invented name. So I asked Cousin Elder: Me: Have you ever done any research in the name Jehovah? E: Yes, I know that it's not God's name Me: Then why use it? E: Because that is the most popular form and we really don't know the true name of God Me: Then we should at least Yahweh since it's at least closer to the tetragramaton. Would you read an article from the Catholic website about the name Jehovah if I sent you the link? E: Yes I will Me: They even mention Jehovah's Witnesses in there E: In a negative way? Me: No, nothing negative, just that JW's have even taken that name for themselves when it's an invented name by a Dominican Monk Here's the link I sent him: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah We'll see. If I can just get him to think of 1 little thing that may not be true. Hopefully he'll read those things I sent him and think. I also sent them the link to the Guardian magazine article about WTBT$ being a member of the U.N
• 

  tornapart

  I was just watching this.. a really good break down of that assembly talk. Well worth watching.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aesftbJ4khA
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  flipper

  " Mother " can't commit apostasy, but apparently each rank & file JW can. So typical of WT leaders reasoning. And it's been indoctrinated into the minds of WT Society followers. You are right, it's next to impossible to reason with them as you stated because they are so mind controlled into believing the GB and WT leaders are appointed by " God ". It's insane. Peace out, mr. flipper
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  DATA-DOG

  Tornapart That is a great clip, thanks for bringing it back!
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  00DAD

  Newly Enlightened: Point to all this. You cannot reason with the Jdubs.

  Yeppers! Discussing doctrine with someone under mind-control is pointless. It never works unless the person is already having doubts and ready to learn TTATT.

  For this reason, Steven Hassan, recommends trying to reach the person's authentic self and to do reality checks obliquely. For example, you could discuss false religious practices of the Amish, or Scientologists and imply parallels without ever explicitly stating them.

  If you haven't read Releasing the Bonds, by Hassan I'd strongly recommend you do so.

  00DAD
• 

  BluesBrother

  As O'Brien said to Winston Smith in "1984"

  " You are here because you have failed in humility, in self-discipline. You would not make the act of submission which is the price of sanity. You preferred to be a lunatic, a minority of one. Only the disciplined mind can see reality, Winston. You believe that reality is something objective, external, existing in its own right. You also believe that the nature of reality is self-evident. When you delude yourself into thinking that you see something, you assume that everyone else sees the same thing as you. But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.'

  Part 3 chapt 2

  Just substitute the word "Party" for "Society" and you have the JDub mindset exactly......At least the ones who are so far entrenched as to be unreasonable. I believe that it may take a personal shock to wake them up. Logic and reasoning cannot do it alone until they are ready, consider the number of stories here where the exit began after an injustice or a particularly bad experience with the elders..Maybe his time will come?????????
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  Newly Enlightened

  Well it's been a week and no letters or phone calls yet. I know he won't stop & think of anything I said.
• 

  Newly Enlightened

  So I'm updating this topic with ROUND 2. They picked the wrong day to mess with me. My daughter Gojira tripped over her cat and slammed her face into the corner of a doorway and her Hubby took her to the ER. She's ok, she inherited my side of the family's hard head, but she does have a slight concussion and has to take it easy. So since I live 70 miles away, it's been a long stressful day and I get home and just starting to unwind with a glass of wine when, yep you guessed it, Cousin Elder calls....

  Here's the gist of the conversation:

  XXXX is on a conference line with another elder. They're worried and concerned about us. They haven't cared for the past 6 yrs, why now? The only time Cousin Elder calls would be to get our time. I told them they would have to call back next week and talk to Hubby because he's gone to a 'trade show' right now and because I'm done. I'm done taking beatings & scoldings from elders. Then he goes "well we don't want to see you leave Jehovah." I said 'I'm not. I am loyal to God & Jesus no matter what. It's imperfect men I'm done with." He goes, but we're so close to the end. I told him I've been hearing that since 1975. I said "Because of that same belief, I didn't get an education, didn't get my teeth fixed, so now I"M SCREWED and there's nothing anybody can say that will change that, because I'm going to die in this system! " Nothing. So then I started telling them some of the more horrific problems with elders we've had thru the years. How Bill West took me in the back room to talk, then ended up backing me against the wall and getting 'touchy-feely'. How they wouldn't allow my daughter to go to pioneer school because she was 120 hours behind on her time. [That story is on another thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/244665/1/One-experience-in-our-old-Kingdom-Hall-that-still-HAUNTS-me ] The time that a convicted child molester was coming to meetings and several sisters went to the elders complaining about the creep. I had to start yelling and cause a really bad scene because this creep was following the little sisters to the bathroom and trying to sneak a peek and the elders hauled me in the back room that very moment and chastised me for making a scene. I told them that if you brothers had been doing your job of protecting the cong. I wouldn't have had to do that.. They couldn't say anything, couldn't defend it. I asked the one, I said "How come we condemn the ENTIRE religion when it's the Catholic church having problems with pedophile priests, but then when it's brought out in this org. oh it's an isolated case, or it's just s few imperfect men. Something is wrong with that." Couldn't answer. I think I need a bottle of wine and go to bed. Sorry to rant & rave like a lunatic but I've had it with this org.
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  jgnat

  Sometimes you gotta just let it all out.