by wolfman85 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Listener, you said : " The great crowd is not saved at all, rather they are ones who have survived the GT."
How can you say that? Doesn't Revelation 7:10 tells that the GC says “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” How come you say the GC isn't saved at all when the GT is over?
Eden
Eden One you are right in that the GC do acknowledge their salvation to God and Jesus and they do this after they have come out of the GT. It is not surprising that they would rightly do so, any of us who were still in existence after the GT would attribute this to God and Jesus, they are grateful and serve him day and night. Perhaps these are lucky ones who have not been caught in the pre destruction phase who were given the opportunity of proving their faithfullness during that time.
From my understanding at the start of the GT there is a lot of death and destruction and this is not done by God, it isn't until the angels who are holding back the four winds release them which is after the 144,000 are sealed that God causes the final destruction to occur. If the Great Crowd is not the 144,000/sealed ones then there has been no specific efforts to ensure they are saved.
If we are to believe the org in saying that the Great Crowd are not the 144,000 then they were never 'sealed' which is what is being done to the 144,000 to ensure their salvation and protection. Because they have not been given this protection there may be many faithful ones who do not survive Armageddon as Satan will be part of this war and trying to cause as much devastation as possible.
This whole thing seems to be fallout from the refusal of that pesky end to come. The 1935 "great crowd" are nearly all dead so that becomes as much of an embarrassment as the previous (choose any) generation teaching.
The fact that nobody has twigged it in the congs does not mean that the teaching is not untenable. To be great crowd they have to survive. OK, knock the problem on the head - it is FUTURE, the great crowd does not exist until the GT has come. BIM BAM thank you maam. Next!
The 1935 "great crowd" are nearly all dead so that becomes as much of an embarrassment as the previous (choose any) generation teaching.
Assuming that the rumor is true (that "Spanish forum" has a prophecy record about as accurate as the Watchtower's)....
As noted, it would make no real, practical difference to JWs. It would however serve to tie up the "loose end" quoted above.
The "great crowd" is supposed to "come through" the great tribulation. Since Armageddon has delayed 78 years and counting from 1935, those folks who stood up at the convention in 1935, virtually if not entirely all dead by now, were not part of the "great crowd" after all.
If the "great crowd" hasn't appeared yet, then that 1935 group were just another bunch of JWs with the "earthly hope" who happened to die before Armageddon.
Did I say it would make no practical difference? That's not quite right. "1935" is the 2nd most popular Kingdom Hall security code in use, right after "1914". If "1935" loses its prophetic significance, congregations all over the earth will have to pick new numbers.
I know how all this is going to end. Jehovah's Witnesses suddenly awake in their kingdom hall seats to find themselves holding white kittens, whom they deduce to have been anointed members all along, with the black kittens having been the governing body. The story ends with members recalling the speculation of the Tweedle brothers, that everything may have, in fact, been a dream of the faithful and discreet slave class and that the great crowd might be no more than a figment of their imagination.
Honestly, I think "new light" is used as a distraction from the nasty stuff going on in the org. It's like putting twinkle lights on a dead tree. Oooo, pretty!
listener, listen please. The sealing of the 144 000 is not for protection, to the contrary it is to confirm their martyrs death. the first sealed one was probably Stephen. the sealed ones rule with Christ.in order to rule with Christ you have to die by the "Ax" a sacrificial death.
One possibility is that those of the 12 tribes (that come out of all the nations) that are not sealed i.e. martyred, are also the great crowd you see in the turbulent wake of the Great tribulation. Thats not new news, light,
the wt has "consistantly held that the 12 tribes of Rev. 7 are the earthly class"
the 144 000 COMES OUT OF the 12 tribes. they are bought FROM the earth.
the great crowd are the 12 tribes after they come out of the great mess.
somebody called it a dream, wrong, it is a NIGHT MARE. because we need salvation because of the snake talking to the cloned , naked lady.
In other words the old light of wt is that
1) the 12 tribes are the earthly class (New annointed were formerly "other sheep" )
2) the great Crowd is the earthly class . (not yet re-organized into 12 New World divisions, Zones, branches) thankfully.
there are several things wrong with that. maybe. truly.
Paul (i): this is so bad, it is not even wrong.
"New light" is necessary because the end has still not come..and the old light is looking extremely misguided.
When something has not happened several decades after you first swore it would happen, you need to revise your teachings.
yep they are nothing but false prophets . I don't ever remember hearing any of the GB getting thrown in prison or executed for the preaching work , jeeze they are supposed to leave all things behind and go on a crusade for christ then be murdered for the preaching work to prove yourself worthy for the LF .all I've seen is them living a comfy life in a condo in NY whilst playing some sort of promotions game for others to fight the fine fight in dangerous territories , ok fat cat why not just you be that person yourself? Then they pull the rug out from under them by becoming an NGO with the UN and now no condemnation against babylon or the beast , unbelievable , then guess what , we aren't the actual FDS in charge of anything but still FDS .. wow amazing
