"Witness Patients Often Do Better" - Erm......

by snare&racket 66 Replies latest jw friends

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  wasblind

  I remember in one conversation An elder try to reason

  That It made no sense to donate a pint of blood, and then the doctor

  tell the patient they will die if they don't recieve that same pint

  That goes to show his reasonin' is off

  The Red Cross do not take more than a pint of blood ,

  to do so would risked complications to the volunteer

  Doctors advise transfusions to those who are at risk for losin' more than a pint

  I can't remember the conversation verbatum. I think he used the word Litre

  or quart to make his point, but to be safe as not to lie on this brother I'll say pint

  anyway it boils down to him not knowin' a damn thing

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  snare&racket

  Wasblind, your body can replace the blood donated.

  The blood you donate is not for you it is for patients of the same blood type.

  There are sooooo many reasons why you may need blood. As I said, blood carries oxygen to the cells, it does this via hemoglobin on your red blood cells. If your hemoglobin levels are low, it means you are not getting enough oxygen , note that there has been no blood loss in this scenario. In severe cases we transfuse people to increase the levels of hemoglobin.

  The ignorance evident in the JW community concerning blood is serious as it is life and death. The ignorance is staggering, I must admit I was likewise ignorant and trusted what they were saying at the time.

  Of course now the JW's accept blood donations in the form of fractions, so the elders point is irrelevant now anyway.
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  wasblind

  I agree Snare and a racket,

  It's their Ignorance that have killed folks needlessly

  Now they accept more than a "fraction" . In the 2006 August Awake

  they talk of HBOC which Looks exactly like a pint of whole blood

  and is largely made up of the main component ( Hemogloben / Blood ) , which it is dervived from

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• 

  ldrnomo

  "Witness Patients Often Do Better"

  We need proof, statistics, double blind tests etc. etc.

  Then I will believe
• 

  snare&racket

  HBOC's are not yet approved and are considered dangerous. Ignoring the fact they come from blood....
  
  It is ridiclous, their method of deciding yes or no is nonsensical and seems based on size of compounds and the colour of cells. Organ transplant is ok, yet they dont realise that an organ is just a collection of tissues made up of cells. Blood is in fact a tissue!!

  Plasma is just water with a bit of protein (albumin- egg white) in it and some minerals, yet is forbidden????? Why? The bible specifies nothing on this ! Probably the brooklyn lemons feel there is significance to plasma being the majority of the volume of blood, of course plasma is mostly water and we are mostly water, there is no significance at all !!!

  As for the rest of blood, they seem obsessed with red blood cells, but these are just cells made of fats and proteins, same as every other cell. Red blood cells dont even have DNA in them, they are nothing more than floating rafts for oxygen molecule to grab hold of. Becasue we need a lot of oxygen and it has to reach every cell of our body all the time, we have lots of these red rafts and this gives our blood a red appearance.

  How is a clotting factor allowed, a functioning unit of blood, and yet a dumb raft for oxygen to stick to forbidden? On what grounds?

  There is nothing sacred about any of it and they must not lie about components, if you break anything down to its components you just get the periodic table, so to pretend that atoms in the configuration of a concave red cells means something to god is just stupid!! Besides in their BLOOD brochure in the 80's they then said fractions were a sin. What has changed ?

  To humans thousands of years ago that saw people die when the red stuff poured out, OF COURSE it was seen as sacred, the life force, a connection between god and life. For when it 'returned to the ground' so did that person's life. But this is just dumb ignorance. If god thought blood was so sacred, why do most of the animals survive off of it, tearing each other to shreds! Some animals depend on it, mosquitos and leeches!

  Also there are plenty of fluids we can't live without. Is CSF fluid sacred? It is as vital to our life as blood, but not as dramatic in colour and less likely to be noticed in trauma as it is a clear fluid.

  Basically, how do they know that god dissaproves of a cup of tea, but wouldn't mind someone having a tea bag or hot water, or milk or sugar. It is either all stupid or none of it, you can't just make up the rules for millions of people without explaining why or how !!!

  You certainly can't imply that this life saving treatment is SAFER to refuse... if it was, you wouldnt have AWAKE covers with dead children on them.

  Snare
• 

  sabastious

  Sabatious, with the greatest respect, this is a legitimate discussion about real people and real life and death situations. Your conspiracy scenario's are unwelcome and unhelpful.

  I am not here to fearmonger, I am here with legitmate concern for the well being of the children in my community and those of my country. I have a right to that concern and I will voice it in the way I feel is necessary.

  The fact is that the Watchtower uses mind control in order to plant extreme fear into their members. This robs them of their free will especially if you were raised in the environment. The subject of blood briefly came up when I was with my brother and he told me that he was extremely fearful of blood transfusions. I tried to reason with him a bit, but he was gripped with fear and talked about how tranfusing blood is like having another person inside of you. He said that it probably changed your genetics and that it would change the genetics of your children. All of this fear is created by his mind because of the fear that is purposefuly put into the minds of Watchtower Kingdom Hall meeting attenders. The publications are designed to create irrational fear. It's no coincidence that my father used to read us both the blood brochure before we went to bed along with My Book of Bible Stories. I am out of the cult now, but my brother is still in and is in a constant state of irrational fear. This is much more than religious charlatans. This is religiously organized crime. They hide behind the freedom of religion that so much sacrifice around the entire globe obtained for them. Then they use it to rob the liberty of the mind of children and they end up becoming abuse victims of every type. Then those failed experiments go off on their own trying to make sense of the world they were cast into. This will not stand and it needs to be voiced as much as possible.

  The Watchtower is what's called a Cult of Death. They are obsessed with Satan and death and their religious insanity costs the lives of countless children. I know I am not the only one who reads the articles of Marvin Shilmer. It is not a stretch AT ALL to think that a death cult preys on their own young. I know, I lived it.

  Spare me your scientific melodrama.

  -Sab
• 

  wasblind

  HBOC's are not yet approved and are considered dangerous. Ignoring the fact they come from blood....______Snare and a racket

  Accordin' to the 2006 Aug Awake, it's would be allowed as a conscience choice for Witnesses, it says's so in the grey box

  on page 11

  It don't take a rocket scientist ( Which I don't claim to be ) to know the WTS screwed up

  I try to keep it where folks can easily understand the point I'm trynna make

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  Short and to the point

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• 

  snare&racket

  Scientific melodrama = people dying needlessly.

  You are free to say as you wish, I just didn't want anyone that looked at this thread to be offended and so politely asked you to retract it. There will be people on here who have lost loved ones, they perhaps don't want to hear your theories on WT killing them on purpose with some kind of satanic purpose. Something I have never heard said about JW's before. It is a thread about misleading people, keeping them ignorant of science that would topple their authority.

  However, you obviously felt it was appropriate o bring up death cults and conspiracy. As a quick aside, I was a JW too, I lived it too, as a pioneer and a bethelite. I lived it for 20+ years. A death cult, I do not believe it was. An irresponsible and ignorant cult that wanted to stand out from other christian religions by being extreme, I believe it was. But that is a discussion for another day.

  This is about blood, science and misrepresentation of evidence by WT. Please keep to the theme of the posts, thanks.
• 

  snare&racket

  WasBlind....

  From a REAL journal...

  Blood Transfus. 2010 June; 8 , doi: 10.2450/2010.010S

  "The clinical studies carried out on the most promising HBOCs are reported in table III12. So far, no product has been approved by U.S. FDA and EMEA. A few of them, notably Hemopure®, Polyheme®, Hemospan® and Hemolink®, have received approval for compassionate use for the treatment of Jehovah’s Witnesses, sickle cell patients or red cell immune- and autoimmune-reactive patients. Hemopure® was licensed for use in South Africa but, recently, the Medicines Control Council of South Africa decided to discontinue its registration.

  Critical evaluations of the effects of HBOCs on human health have been reported. These adverse effects, (highlighted in table IV), may limit the applicability of currently available HBOCs, given the low therapeutic index, the ratio of benefit to risk, and cast doubts on some of the applied strategies. A meta-analysis of the clinical studies carried out with HBOCs indicated that their use is associated with a significantly increased risk of myocardial infarction and death. This report triggered strong reactions, especially from researchers associated to companies."

  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2897202/

  (Myocardial infarct = heart attack.)

  The Watchtower are promoting medicines that are too dangerous for approval, knowing that they are risking death for their followers. Yet do they declare ANY of this in their literature? They call blood dangerous, yet promote this !!!
• 

  wasblind

  Thank you for the post Snare and a racket

  That only prove the point I made that accordin' to the 2006 August Awake

  The WTS said this HBOC was a conscience choice for witnesses

  What I posted was not in defense of the WTS

  It was from the remarks of an Elder and what was stated in the Awake

  What is your disagreement about, I'm not clear on that

  Edit: I see what you have highlighted . But why get so testy

  calm down, it's all good. BREATHE !!!!!

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