Fallacy of Baptism "in Holy Spirit"!

by The Searcher 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Samaritans are believed to be a branch of very ancient Jews who believe in Moses.

    They are a branch of Israel... and not Jews. They believed in Moses, as did all of Israel. Unfortunately, the Jews only recognize themselves (Judah and Benjamin) as "Israel". They utterly dismiss the actual 10-tribes that constitute Israel. That was the problem between them, Judah and Israel:

    "Also, Jeroboam son of Nebat rebelled against the king. He was one of Solomon’s officials, an Ephraimite from Zeredah, and his mother was a widow named Zeruah. H ere is the account of how he rebelled against the king: Solomon had built the terraces and had filled in the gap in the wall of the city of David his father. Now Jeroboam was a man of standing , and when Solomon saw how well the young man did his work, he put him in charge of the whole labor force of the tribes of Joseph . About that time Jeroboam was going out of Jerusalem , and Ahijah the prophet of Shiloh met him on the way, wearing a new cloak . The two of them were alone out in the country, and Ahijah took hold of the new cloak he was wearing and tore it into twelve pieces . Then he said to Jeroboam, “Take ten pieces for yourself, for this is what JaHVeH, the God of Israel, says : ‘See, I am going to tear the kingdom out of Solomon’s hand and give you ten tribes. But for the sake of my servant David and the city of Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, he will have one tribe. I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in obedience to me, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my decrees and laws as David, Solomon’s father, did.

    But I will not take the whole kingdom out of Solomon’s hand ; I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of David my servant, whom I chose and who obeyed my commands and decrees. I will take the kingdom from his son’s hands and give you ten tribes . I will give one tribe to his son so that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I chose to put my Name . However, as for you, I will take you, and you will rule over all that your heart desires; you will be king over Israel . If you do whatever I command you and walk in obedience to me and do what is right in my eyes by obeying my decrees and commands, as David my servant did, I will be with you. I will build you a dynasty as enduring as the one I built for David and will give Israel to you. I will humble David’s descendants because of this, but not forever.’”

    " Solomon tried to kill Jeroboam, but Jeroboam fled to Egypt, to Shishak the king, and stayed there until Solomon’s death. As for the other events of Solomon’s reign—all he did and the wisdom he displayed—are they not written in the book of the annals of Solomon? Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel forty years . Then he rested with his ancestors and was buried in the city of David his father. And Rehoboam his son succeeded him as king.

    " Rehoboam went to Shechem, for all Israel had gone there to make him king . When Jeroboam son of Nebat heard this (he was still in Egypt, where he had fled from King Solomon), he returned from Egypt . So they sent for Jeroboam, andhe and the whole assembly of Israel went to Rehoboam and said to him: “Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but now lighten the harsh labor and the heavy yoke he put on us, and we will serve you.”

    " Rehoboam answered, “Go away for three days and then come back to me.” So the people went away. Then King Rehoboam consulted the elders who had served his father Solomon during his lifetime. “ How would you advise me to answer these people ?” he asked. They replied, “If today you will be a servant to these people and serve them and give them a favorable answer, they will always be your servants .”

    "But Rehoboam rejected the advice the elders gave him and consulted the young men who had grown up with him and were serving him . He asked them, “ What is your advice ? How should we answer these people who say to me, ‘Lighten the yoke your father put on us’?”

    The young men who had grown up with him replied , “These people have said to you, ‘Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but make our yoke lighter.’ Now tell them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s waist . My father laid on you a heavy yoke; I will make it even heavier . My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions .’”

    “Th ree days later Jeroboam and all the people returned to Rehoboam , as the king had said, “Come back to me in three days.” The king answered the people harshly . Rejecting the advice given him by the elders, he followed the advice of the young men and said, “My father made your yoke heavy; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions. ” So the king did not listen to the people , for this turn of events was from JaHVeH, to fulfill the word JaHVeH had spoken to Jeroboam son of Nebat through Ahijah the Shilonite.

    " When all Israel saw that the king refused to listen to them, they answered the king :

    What share do we have in David , what part in Jesse’s son?
    To your tents, Israel !
    Look after your own house, David !”

    So the Israelites went home . But as for the Israelites who were living in the towns of Judah, Rehoboam still ruled over them . King Rehoboam sent out Adoniram , who was in charge of forced labor, but all Israel stoned him to death . King Rehoboam, however, managed to get into his chariot and escape to Jerusalem. So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day .

    " When all the Israelites heard that Jeroboam had returned, they sent and called him to the assembly andmade him king over all Israel . Only the tribe of Judah remained loyal to the house of David .

    " When Rehoboam arrived in Jerusalem, he mustered all Judah and the tribe of Benjamin —a hundred and eighty thousand able young men— to go to war against Israel and to regain the kingdom for Rehoboam son of Solomon. But this word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God: “ Say to Rehoboam son of Solomon king of Judah , to all Judah and Benjamin , and to the rest of the people , ‘This is what JaHVeH says: Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites . Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.’” So they obeyed the word of JaHVeH and went home again, as JaHVeH had ordered."

    So, here you have where the tribes split, from ONE nation, Israel... into TWO nations: Israel... and Judah. "Jews" (the Yehudim) are "Judah"... of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The two split and became mortal enemies. ALL believed in the God of MOSES, however, and so while Judah still worshipped at Solomon's temple in Jerusalem, Israel began worshipping in the mountains (so this comment, "They live near the Mt. Moses ascended" is true):

    "Jeroboam fortified Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim and lived there. From there he went out and built up Peniel. J eroboam thought to himself, The kingdom will now likely revert to the house of David. If these people go up to offer sacrifices at the temple of JaHVeH in Jerusalem , they will again give their allegiance to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah . They will kill me and return to King Rehoboam.” After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt .” One he set up in Bethel* , and the other in Dan . And this thing became a sin ; the people came to worship the one at Bethel*and went as far as Dan to worship the other .

    Jeroboam built shrines on high places and appointed priests from all sorts of people, even though they were not Levites . He instituted a festival on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the festival held in Judah , and offered sacrifices on the altar. This he did in Bethel , sacrificing to the calves he had made. And at Bethel he also installed priests at the high places he had made . On the fifteenth day of the eighth month, a month of his own choosing, he offered sacrifices on the altar he had built at Bethel. So he instituted the festival for the Israelites and went up to the altar to make offerings." 1 Kings 11:26-12:33

    [* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria; http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/samaria.html; Amos 4:4-6 ]

    Unlike Judah, who worshipped at the temple in Jerusalem, Israel ("Samaria") worshipped in the mountain... as the Samaritan woman reminded my Lord (John 4:7, 19, 20). As shown above, that worship was crazy false. And so, Ezekiel's words:

    "The word of JaHVeH came to me: “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother . They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. The older was named Oholah , and her sister was Oholibah . They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters . Oholah is Samaria , and Oholibah is Jerusalem ." Ezekiel 23:1-4

    As a result of this "prostitution" (as "Oholah")... Israel (Samaria) was allowed to be captured by the Assyrians and exiled into that land for a time. When released, they returned to Samaria... and were called "the Samaritans" by Judah. Because of IT'S own "prostitution" (as "Oholibah"), however, JUDAH was allowed to be captured by BABYLON... and exiled into THAT land for a time. When released, THEY (Judah) returned to Jerusalem... and were called "Jews", a name given them by the Chaldeans (Babylonians).

    But, as with everything else I've shared on these matters in this place... NO ONE has to take MY word for these things. They ARE written. Even so, one only need go to the One who told ME about them... and showed where they WERE so written.

    A doulos of Christ,

    SA

  • designs
    designs

    Christian unity, a thing of beauty to behold, all marching together in perfect harmony

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Given the divisions among the disciples while my Lord was literally in their midst, where, may I ask, do you get the premise of "Christian unity," dear designs (peace to you!)? Republicans are "united," as are Democrats. Even scientists disagree on matters. What "unites" the Body of Christ? Agreement on understanding? If that was the case, why would Priscilla and Aquila need to expound the way of God more accurately to Apollos, a man aglow with the (holy) spirit?

    I will tell you what unites christians: love. The "perfect bond of union." Not the FORM of love that some profess to have "among themselves" (yet, by their treatment and conduct of one another, say, letting one another die for the lack of blood or other medical attention, or judging one another as to things like apostasy or repentance, or literally shunning one another and forcing others to do so... or teaching ones to hide from their own flesh... or seeing one of their own hungry and closing the door of their tender compassions upon such one... or seeing them homeless and not offering shelter... etc., etc., etc.)... but the form of love that is shown toward even one who shows himself/herself to be an enemy and so is "perfect" (Matthew 5:43-48).

    Few even in the world have that kind of love. Because even theirs only goes as far as the "gate" of an enemy.

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • designs
    designs

    Sardonic wit lost another one

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Oh, no, I got the "sardonic" part. It's the "wit" that's highly questionable. Highly. As in WAY up there... (see? that's wit)...

    Peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Don't believe me about Samaritans. Consult a Jewish studies prof. at a local secular school. The Encylcopedia Judaica is a voice of authority. Wikipedia may not be but it refuses Shelby's claims. A simple google search will retrieve a host of websites that disagree with her.

    Pls. don't take my word for it. Consulting Christ is not enough. Reading the WT and leaping to your own conclusions is not valid. The Samaritans' orgins remains a source of debate and public policy to this date.

    The internet means we no longer have to sit passively and worship any human that states something. No, from our own homes and businesses we can evaluate such information.

    Shelby is completely wrong. As usual. She provides no references. I did.

    As to whether which view is correct, the present Jewish view or the Samaritan view, I lack the education and reading knowledge to evaluate for it myself. Part of growing up for me was to realize that despite all my efforts, I will only know a small area of knowledge. Critical thinking applies to all knowledge. Who is making the statement. What are their credentials? Do academics accept such an interpretation? What are the battles/discussions within academia.

    Sadly, we were forbidden such knowledge as Witnesses. No one here knows much more than the GB did. Humility is the starting point. Also, as with so many discussion areas, it is very unlikely that a truthful answer is possible. All we can do is beware of our personal bias and the biases of the people we read. If something claims special knowledge, with no references, besides auditory signals, we must no passively listen as we did as Witnesses.

    I reserve the right to make an instinctual decision after I consult many sources. The many sources prevents us from being cult members again.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    How about looking at this symbolicaly

    What did immersion in water represent?

    When was it first used in Hebrew thought?

    Why was John baptising at all?

    If water baptism was for sin why did Jesus do it?

    What rituals did the Hebrews follow to pay for sin already?

    Which parts of the baptism bywater and baptism by fire were new and which parts old?

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Designs - nice wit :)

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    Wow! Band of the Run says: "Consulting Christ is not enough." I am made speechless by this statement other than to say:

    I should think that "[c]onsulting Christ is more than enough"! Wow!

  • Lozhasleft
    Lozhasleft

    I think it's clear that Band has big issues.

    Shelby is completely wrong. As usual. She provides no references. I did.

    It's almost schoolgirl rivalry every time. Loz, who wishes everyone peace x

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