Fallacy of Baptism "in Holy Spirit"!

by The Searcher 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  The Searcher

  The following comment taken from the March 1st 2013 Watchtower, is nothing new. To Witnesses the world over it's a basic teaching which even the kids understand; "Humans with heavenly prospects have been baptized in water and with holy spirit and are thus spirit-begotten disciples of Jesus." (John 3:3, 5) (Both at the same time??????)

  So what? Well, if like me you are an active Witness, ask yourself (or an elder if your foolish enough!) these questions - "After someone's Bible Study got their first baptism - (in water only) - when did their second baptism in the Holy Spirit take place when Jehovah decided they would be a future ruler with Christ?

  In the modern era, those who have claimed to have the heavenly hope, never got "the calling" or the Holy Spirit until several years after their water baptism, and yet virtually everyone in the 1st century received the Holy Spirit when they repented and were baptized in water, just as the apostle Peter stated at Acts 2:38 - "Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of YOUR sins, and YOU will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.

  Quite clearly, (from the Bible evidence) everyone who repents and gets batized, receives the Holy Spirit at their baptism. Nowhere in the Greek Scriptures is there even a suggestion that only heavenly-hopers receive God's Spirit - either at their baptism or later!

  Ephesians 4:5 says that "there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God.." Which part of "one baptism" is hard to understand?

  There would not be two different baptisms for "two classes" or a two-stage baptism for an elite group.

  Test the inspired expressions!
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  PSacramento

  Quite correct.

  Everyone that is baptized and repents and believes that Christ is Lord, receives the HS.

  Paul himself states that no man can proclaim and believe that Christ is Lord ( and all that goes with that proclamation and belief) unless He has the HS.

  Now, does that mean that ALL that are baptizzed or all that proclaim HAVE the HS?

  Personally I don't think so BUT it is not for any believer to judge another in that way.

  Leave that one up to Father and Son.

  Can one that has the HS "lose" it?

  Yes, and no.

  They can deny the HS, yes and I guess that can be viewed as losing, but it is more like blaspheming against the HS.

  I don't think that many that have the HS deny Him, I think that many proclaim to have it ot proclaim Christ because they are "born in" or because they believe they are expected to or because they believe that in doing so, they are somehow "special" or "unique" and then, when they realize that is not the case, they "lose their faith". Sometimes their faith is tested ( by themselves) and they come up wanting.
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  Band on the Run

  The Bible text clearly states that the Holy Spirit will be received as a gift when you are baptized. One baptism is sufficient. There are consequences of baptism. One is the Holy Spirit. Good point.
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  heathen

  I remember one article I read several years ago they made it sound like the water baptism is merely symbolic declaration of faith but then later afterward God checks to see if you are following thru on your chosen way then at that time depending on what he determines will give holy spirit , like what happened at pentacost, The boot comes at the memorial , If you are living a lie you eat and drink judgement against yourself and was even believed to be the cause of death .
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  prologos

  this is both an emotionally loaded and scripturally technical problem. did not some try to bribe themselfs into the GIFTS of the spirit?Jesus received the spirit right after baptism. Cornelius for the not so obvious reason to convince Peter received the GIFTs of the spirit BEFORE baptism! may be after DEDICATION?

  May be the scecialists can hammer this out .
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  heathen

  i think peter and the rest of the apostles were baptized by john the baptist but only after jesus was resurrected could they receive the holy spirit as he said he would ascend to heaven and send a helper : holy spirit . Later they were all baptized agian in the christian , father son and holy spirit way
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  PSacramento

  The Water baptisim is for the remission of sins.

  The HS "baptizes" by "fire" and one is sealed as a Christian ( an annointed one).
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  heathen

  According to peter it was an appeal to GOD for a clean conscience , the sins are still real but if you continue to walk in the light then he will not call them to mind , he merely forgives sins of repentant ones , we are still going to sin regardless but basically it's your willfullness to repent whole heartedly once the sin becomes obvious to you not necessarily others but it's your own conscience that should set off an alarm . Like the apostle Paul states the people of the world have their conscience seared with a branding iron , meaning they have no concept of GODLy principles and standards
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  prologos

  interesting too that when Jesus gave his baptism command , math 28, the disciples still had an clearly defined EARTHLY hope, and that included the Teaching command of "all the things I taught you (past tense)". The two tier tyranny invented in 1934-35 will have to go the way of the 34-35 date for the completion of the 144 000 strong (weak) specia, separate l "anointed" Congregation.
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  heathen

  Obviously the two folds dogma is as flawed as anything . I still believe in the elect little flock and the great crowd as portrayed in the bible but the 2 folds were meant that the gentiles were now part of the fold . Whenever there were still actually jews they were always told to seperate from the gentiles for millenia , now the converts are told they have to go out in the nations and preach to gentiles and that the gentiles had equal rights in the heirarchal structure , jews were not the only elect race anymore .