Who is Babylon the Great?

by sabastious 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious

    Hello JWN, my last thread revealed the identity of the Beast out of the Earth referenced in Revelation chapter 13 veses 11-18. This post will deal with the Beast out of the Sea who is being ridden by a prostitute called Babylon the Great.

    First, we must identify the beast the prositute is riding. This can be found in Revelation chapter 17:

    One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

    3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

    babylon the great

    the mother of prostitutes

    and of the abominations of the earth .

    So, the 7-Headed Beast = the Kings of the Earth who committed adultery with the woman. We are talking about an act of bestiality (beast and woman) here being used as a metaphor to describe the relationship between the two entities. The identity of the woman here is given to us by the mention of her sitting by "many waters." This is a direct reference to the beginning of Genesis:

    Genesis 1:2 - Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    In a previous thread I explained that in the context of Genesis 1:2 the Spirit of God is actually a feminine entity or Aspect of Elohim which is plural word for the One True God. After the fall in the Garden, Eve was given her name and title:

    Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

    Eve is decribed as "mother of all the living" which is why Adam named her Eve. It is safe to say that the Harlot of Revelation directly correlates to this idea of a mother of our corrupted existence. In the allegory Eve allowed a beast to dominate her and that is why she became a whore. She, along with Adam were supposed to have the beasts of the earth in subjejction, but they used their God given free will to allow a beast, albeit a cunning one, to have dominion over them. This put an animal instinct in charge rather than the humanity God had created for them which was separate from the beasts (which is why God's curse turned them into half animal, half human). This is why bestiality in Revelation is used to decribe the "mother of all the living." The 7 headed Beast is actually Adam in a fully corrupted beast-like state who is being controlled by the woman, yet all are under the control of the dragon on shore of the sea which is an advanced verson of the Serpent. The fact that he is standing by water also indicates a superseding of the role of the Spirit of God. It's the theme of water that identifies these characters. Just as the Spirit of God hovered over the waters before the 6 days of creation, the dragon stands on the shore of the sea while his creation is brought forth to a fully corrupted state.

    The Watchtower wrongly identifies this beastly tandum as the "World Empire of False Religion." This is a curious misinterpretation because that title should go to the Beast out of the Earth, not the sea. It seems like a purposeful switch in order to decieve. "The great city birthed from the mother of all the living" would be the ENTIRE world and everything that has ever existed all put into a single piece of imagery. A Mother Earth not of peace and love, but greed and destruction. Babylon isn't "religion" it's EVERYTHING produced by the Mother of Abominations.

    But all is not lost. In this world, God appears to be the underdog, but he waits patiently while his holy ones are ravaged. Eventually, according to Revelation, God has his vengeance in the end, but only at a specified point in time and only when his white robes are soaked in the blood of the holy ones. The Order of Melchizedek are the kings who did not commit adultery with the Mother of Abominations and it's through those kings that God will bring to ruin t hose who are ruining the earth.

    Another adequate piece of imagery to describe Babylon the Great is the Tower of Babel which is another symbol of Genesis 11. That tower was created by the work of man's hands. If you do Bible research on this term "work of man's hands" you will see it all throughout many books. That is why the Tower was an abomination to God, because it was created by men and was pointing towards the heavens. It was created FOR men who had long given up the hand of God in favor of their own abominable ways like ungrateful children. Acts 17 describes this nicely:

    Acts 17: 24 - The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.

    God doesn't live in a temple like the Watchtower says he does. They want to say that Kingdom Halls are where God dwells and that's exactly what Acts 17 says NOT TO DO. No matter how wonderful something is that we create it never even begins to touch the glory of God which is pure and eternal. That is what the whore of Babylon is, it's the idea that we alone can do anything we want and God should thank US for it. The one's who worship this idea are worshipping the image of the beast specifically errected to decieve the nations and create chaos for everyone. When the Bible says, "get out of her" what it means is to stop "having intercourse" with the cities of this planet and their ideals, for they were all created in vain unless overseen by the One True God. It's imploring us to stop calling ourselves brothers because of the walls we errect for ourselves. In reality we are all brothers and sisters as children created equally in the image of God. That is what binds us together, not anything else. So, don't think that just because you are out of organized religion you have escaped the clutches of the Great Whore of Babylon, because she WILL control you with the animal instinct that lives within us all. We must rule over sin, for IT desires US.


  • cantleave

    Are you trying to create your own theogy / cult Sab?

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    I can't wait for Sab's interpretation of the Revelation 7 bowls & 7 trumpets. Should be much more interesting than the WTS.

  • EntirelyPossible

    Here we go again....

  • sabastious
    Are you trying to create your own theogy / cult Sab?

    This has always been a personal venture and cathartic process for me. I am merely recording it for all to enjoy (or not, I guess). If you wanted to be cynical about it you could compare me with the Watchtower, but there is one VERY big difference. I'm having fun, I can't imagine they are. It's important to me to have a theology that makes sense. It's important for them to make money. What does the good book say about the love of money?

    I can't wait for Sab's interpretation of the Revelation 7 bowls & 7 trumpets. Should be much more interesting than the WTS.

    It's more of a decryption process than an interpretation. What I do is break down all the symbols by themselves and figure out how they relate, then I compare that with accepted interpretation. It's a totally rational process that anyone can do with the aid of the internet. Thomas Jefferson had to invent research tools that would allow for multiple books to be easily managed at once. That's how he created America, he read books. One of them being the Torah, mind you. I wonder how often he read it?


  • james_woods

    Thomas Jefferson created America?

  • EntirelyPossible

    Yes, James, he did, simply by reading books, right after he defeated King Louis the XVI of Spain in a sumo wresting match for supreme control of Alaska. In fact, I am creating a country right now called Derpistan by reading this thread.

    Lern some histry, man!

  • Think About It
    Think About It
    Thomas Jefferson created America?

    Yes.....it's in Revelation.

  • sabastious
    Thomas Jefferson created America?

    He had help of course! Here is a gem:

    The tumults in America I expected would have produced in Europe an unfavorable opinion of our political state. But it has not. On the contrary, the small effect of those tumults seems to have given more confidence in the firmness of our governments. The interposition of the people themselves on the side of government has had a great effect on the opinion here. I am persuaded myself that the good sense of the people will always be found to be the best army. They may be led astray for a moment, but will soon correct themselves. The people are the only censors of their governors: and even their errors will tend to keep these to the true principles of their institution. To punish these errors too severely would be to suppress the only safeguard of the public liberty. The way to prevent these irregular interpositions of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro' the channel of the public papers, and to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people. The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them. I am convinced that those societies (as the Indians) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, and restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did any where. Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe. Cherish therefore the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, judges and governors shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions; and experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor. - Document 8 Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington 16 Jan. 1787Papers 11:48--49

    It was actually THOMAS JEFFERSON who invented the internet, NOT Al Gore.


  • Finkelstein

    Could it be really be ancient Babylonia, a story that was passed down through the ages ?

    Most bible scholars think it was the Roman Empire based upon when those pertaining Scriptures were supposedly written.

    Wiki ...


    Rome and the Roman Empire

    Many Biblical scholars believe that " Babylon " is an allegory of the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313: perhaps specifically, at the time, referencing some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism ). Some exegetes interpret the passage as a scathing critique of a servant people of Rome who do the Empire's bidding, interpreting that the author of Revelation was speaking of the Herodians - a party of Jews friendly to Rome and open to her influence, like the Hellenizers of centuries past - and later, corrupt Hasmoneans , where the ruler of Jerusalem or Roman Judaea exercised his power at the pleasure of the Emperor, and was dependent on Roman influence, like Herod the Great in the Gospel according to Luke .

    In 4 Ezra (2 Esdras/4 Esdras; see the article on the naming conventions of the Books of Ezra ), 2 Baruch and the Sibylline oracles ,"Babylon" is a cryptic name for Rome. Elsewhere in the New Testament , in 1 Peter 5:13; some speculate that "Babylon" is used to refer to Rome. In Revelation 17:9 it is said that she sits on "seven mountains" (the King James Version Bible—the New International Version Bible uses the words "seven hills"), typically understood as the seven hills of Rome . A Roman coin minted under the Emperor Vespasian (ca. 70 AD) depicts Rome as a woman sitting on seven hills.

    According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3, 11–13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6)."

    Roman Catholic Church

    [30] (a Christian allegory of evil) was incarnated by the Emirate of Cordoba .

    Pre-Reformation views

    Dante equated the corruption and simony in the office of the Papacy with the Whore of Babylon in Canto 19 of his Inferno :

    Di voi pastor s'accorse il Vangelista,
    quando colei che siede sopra l'acque
    puttaneggiar coi regi a lui fu vista...
    (Shepherds like you the Evangelist had in mind when he saw the one that sits upon the waters committing fornication with the kings.)
    Reformational view

    Whore of Babylon wearing a papal tiara from a woodcut in Luther's translation of the New Testament

    Historicist interpreters commonly used the phrase "Whore of Babylon" to refer to the Roman Catholic Church. Reformation writers from Martin Luther (1483–1546) (who wrote On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church), John Calvin (1509–1564), and John Knox (1510–1572) (who wrote The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women) taught this association. The Roman Catholic Church denies the claim that it is being referred to by the Book of Revelation as the Whore of Babylon.

    Most early Protestant Reformers believed, and the modern Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches, that in Bible prophecy a woman represents a church. [33] [34] "I have likened the daughter of Zion To a lovely and delicate woman." (Jeremiah 6:2 nkjv ) A harlot, it is argued, is representative of a church that has been unfaithful:

    "Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry
    And children of harlotry,
    For the land has committed great harlotry
    By departing from the L ORD .” (Hosea 1:2 nkjv )

    They also believed that the primary location of this unfaithful church is stated in the same chapter.

    "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." (Revelation 17:18)

    The connection noted above on the seven hills of Rome is argued to locate the church.

    Identification of the Pope as the Antichrist was written into Protestant creeds such as the Westminster Confession of 1646. The identification of the Roman Catholic Church with the Whore of Babylon is kept in the Scofield Reference Bible (whose 1917 edition identified "ecclesiastical Babylon" with "apostate Christendom headed by the Papacy ").

    Traditionalist Catholic view

    Some traditionalist Catholics who hold the position of Sedevacantism , most notably the Most Holy Family Monastery , believe that a counterfeit bride – a Counter-Catholic Church – will arise in the end times in order to deceive faithful Catholics; they teach that this counterfeit Church is the Roman Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council .

    Seventh-Day Adventism

    Because Ellen Gould White , one of the founders of the Seventh-Day Adventists , concluded that "Spiritual Babylon" would have worldwide influence, affecting "all nations", she wrote, in a book called The Great Controversy (often reprinted as "America in Prophecy": one of the large corpus of Ms White's writings), that Imperial Rome could not meet the criteria, as she wrote that it only had influence in the Old World (the New World had not yet been discovered at the time of Jesus). Thus, Ellen Gould White concluded that the true "Whore of Babylon" must be the "Roman" Catholic Church (disregarding the other 22 sui iuris Eastern Catholic Churches), giving lasting impetus and inspiration to the strong anti-Catholicism present throughout much of Adventism through its hstory. [40]

    Jehovah's Witnesses

    Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Whore of Babylon represents "the world empire of false religion", [41] referring to all elements of worldly religions that do not adhere to biblical truth as published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTS) and as interpreted and defined by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (the institutional and leadership organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses). This includes, but is not limited to, Christendom , a term they use to refer to "professed Christianity" (Nominal Christianity) as opposed to "true Christianity". Jehovah's Witnesses literature often mentions the Catholic religion when discussing The Great Harlot of Babylon, and the subsequent attack on her by the political powers, signaling the beginning of the "great tribulation".

    They believe that the harlot—the empire of false religion and an enemy of God—has persecuted God's prophets and people, and that 'false religion'—all religions that do not follow Bible teaching;commits and has committed "fornication" with the world's political and commercial elements. [44]

    Earthly Jerusalem

    Many Biblical scholars and theologians point out that although Rome was the prevailing pagan power in the 1st century when the Book of Revelation was written, the symbolism of the whore of Babylon refers not to an invading infidel of foreign power, but to an apostate false queen, a former "bride" who has been unfaithful and who, even though she has been divorced and cast out because of unfaithfulness, continues to falsely claim to be the "queen" of the spiritual realm. This symbolism did not fit the case of Rome at the time. Proponents of this view suggest that the "seven mountains" in Rev 17:9 are the seven hills on which Jerusalem stands and the "fall of Babylon" in Rev 18 is the fall and destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD The dress of the whore of Babylon is similar to the Jerusalem High Priest (Exodus 28:6).

    Several Old Testament prophets referred to Jerusalem as being a spiritual harlot and a mother of such harlotry (Isaiah 1:21; Jeremiah 2:20; Jeremiah 3:1–11; Ezekiel 16:1–43; Ezekiel 23, Galatians 4:25). Some of the these Old Testament prophecies as well as the warnings in the New Testament concerning Jerusalem are in fact very close to the text concerning Babylon in Revelation, suggesting that John may well have actually been citing those prophecies in his description of Babylon.

    For example, in Matthew 23:34–37 and Luke 11:47–51, Jesus himself assigned all of the bloodguilt for the killing of the prophets and of the saints (of all time) to the Pharisees of Jerusalem, and, in Revelation 17:6 and 18:20,24, almost identical phrasing is used in charging that very same bloodguilt to Babylon. This is also bolstered by Jesus' statement that "it's not possible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem." (Luke 13:33).

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