YouTube Series on Salvation and what it actually is for JW's, Mormons, SDA

by Ticker 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • unstopableravens

    enjoy your day with family!

  • caliber

    In my opinion it is important to give ones a solid foundation in Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11) prior to ripping away their current foundation. It can be likened to moving a house from a failing foundation to a solid lasting foundation, if you were to first destroy the bad foundation without first moving the house to the good foundation the house would collapse

    Not trying to achieve anything. Just offering the Gospel message of Salvation through Christ to anyone who may want to take comfort in it. I'm not any essential part of it as it's between them and Jesus.

    @ ticker ....I appreciate your sincere and humble efforts to comfort others in the face of your first hand experience.

    Interesting video's thanks thanks for the time and effort that went into this

  • designs

    'take comfort in it' represents the blindness that accompanies religious belief, particularly christian belief. You have a icon who has threatened humanity with the greatest genocide imaginable in Matthew and Revelations.

    Let your Jesus come, we will teach him about Peace.

    Grandpa designs

    The Peace Alliance Foundation

  • unstopableravens

    designs your a grandpa?

  • designs

    Yes to a beautiful 4 year old, as Irish as they come with redhair. I'll send you a pm.

    We had a lot to be thankful for this year, my little guy had successful surgery for his hearing and with the help of a good speech therapist he is now talking up a storm.

  • unstopableravens

    awesome look forward to your pm, i might have to call you mr designs now

  • Searril

    Ticker, thanks for the videos.

  • Ticker

    @ Caliber and Searril

    No problem, glad you enjoyed them and found them helpful. The work was worth it then.

    @ InterestedOne and Designs

    From the bible account of Adam and Eve we find that sin entered from disobedience to God. The result of sin was death. (Romans 5:12,17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:19-22) Those with belief in God have no issue putting faith in this. (Hebrews 11:1) Their faith is built upon a relationship with God, being intimate with him through the bible, through personal experience of his blessings, active exchange of prayer that is answered, creation that abounds, examples of present and past followers of God who demonstrate faith and it's outcome, etc..

    Now obviously for someone who disregards the authenticity of God this type of faith holds little merit. Many lay faith in science and theory(not meaning hypothesis) The term "scientific theory" refers to a "well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." My disclosure is I'm not an expert in the field of science but will try my best. I did a bit of research into this from a scientific viewpoint. To put this into a scientific perspective of the question "why does sin result in death" we can mull over a couple of quick points.

    In principal biological immortality is theoretically possible. If you provide a cell the metabolites and nutrients it needs to survive there is no reason why it's lineage should die out. Cells divide, replace older cells in a never-ending process but for some unknown reason they just stop. The most widely accepted theory is most Chromosomes (Telomere) deteriorate over time. (See Telomere restoration) Active genes become affected by this erosion. There is also "programmed cell death" now known to occur. Cells respond to signals we do not yet recognize and essentially die on a pre-programmed schedule. Lab tests on plants have shown seperating the signalling mechanism from the wound-response tissue called callus allows the callus to grow indefinitely in tissue culture. Man has yet to conclusively determine why this process of degeneration occurs.

    Now this is just a thought of mine and nothing more but could God have made us subject to the "Second Law of Thermodynamics"(Law of Decay)? This law states "every system left to it's own devices always tends to move from order to disorder, its energy tending to be transformed into lower levels of availability, finally reaching the state of complete randomness and unavailibility for further work." This seems very similar to present human life and the aging process. As a Christian I believe that God is the master of the laws of science and could easily make us subject to whatever law he liked.

    What I know of the Universe and it's workings is everything is intricately balanced. Everything has order. Planets, our own DNA, everything imaginable have specific order not randomness. Without this order and governence of scientific law none of what we know would be possible. Can we even begin to fathom that such order would result from mass chaos? Obviously many do put faith in that however it requires just as much faith in things unseen. Science has tried to explain and simulate how life could have evolved from innanimate matter to living matter for many years without success. Since the middle ages sciencetific experiments have attemped to produce spontanious generation. Miller/Fox experiments in the 1950's also could not produce life from inanimate matter. In my opinion just as much faith is required to believe evolution. How many people actually question evolution for it's proof prior to disregarding God or do many just accept it due to it's promotion as academically acceptable?

    So to segway back to the question of what proof do I have, I would ask the same question in response to evolution and life from chaos.

    I'm not wanting to stir up a creation/evolution argument nor discredit anyones beliefs, however I ask that one be fair in having such certainty that creation is not possible. I strongly believe it is not only possible but compelling. Science and God in my opinion can co-exist quite easily without one contradicting the other. Some Christians are quite comfortable with the though of an evolutionary process while still accepting God as a Creator. Please feel free to show me otherwise and I will respectfully listen but I think their is a plethora of information on the internet that can be examined to support my belief.

    For lack of knowledge I do not know nor want to prejudge but may I assume you are atheist but were at one time a believer in God? May I respectfully ask what confirmed your acceptance of atheism vs. theism? What lead to discounting God as a possibility?

  • InterestedOne

    Ticker: You have not provided evidence that death is -due to- sin. I know from observation that living things die. Beyond that, I am not able to say -why- they die. You have claimed that sin is the reason -why- living things die, but you have not provided evidence to prove this claim. Nevertheless, in your OP, you said:

    not enough people question but rather swallow views presented without first determining the evidence to prove it so.

    I agree and am waiting for evidence to prove it so.

  • Ticker


    Thanks for your question and I hope this addresses it properly or clarifies my original reply to it.

    I responded that I put faith in the Bible as to why sin leads to death. I also put faith in God's redemption from Sin through Jesus Christ much the same. For me that works but I also to the best of my ability gave some reasoning from science as to why sin might result in death. I'm not a learned person or a pundit of science but I mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics. That was just a speculation on my part as the Bible makes no mention nor does science have a conclusive answer itself as to why we biologically degrade other then Chromosomes deteriorate over time. Their is no scientific explanation that I'm aware of as to why genes are effected by this erosion. A possibility although completely speculation on my part is that we were made accountable to the Law of Thermodynamics due to sin and thus our bodies deteriorate with death being the end result. However obviously I can not prove it to be an absolute answer.

    While I must rely on faith that some things are so, science apart from God also requires a very similar faith. There is the "theory of aging" split again between two views, "Free Radical" and "DNA Damage" but again all this can still be accepted with an acknowledgement of a creator.

    So given the knowledge of science that our bodies break down due to either free radical or DNA deterioration and harmonizing it with a belief in God, it would seem rational that God has allowed us in our sinful state to die. Since it is not spelled out in any scripture as to exactly the process used or allowded to lead to death from sin I can not state specifically why just as science can not give definate cause. We all know it happens but exactly why our chromosomes break down instead of perpetually regenerating is unknown as far as I honestly can tell. Putting faith in the bible that is is resultant from sin is no more difficult then accepting it is a process of a life cycle. Both still fail to determine exactly why.

    That is about as well as I can respond to your question and I don't think it weakens the standpoint of believing in theism contrast to atheism. If I discover a better answer I will be sure to update.

    Now I ask if you can show evidence that death is not due to sin?

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