My new brethern in Christ Ticker
YouTube Series on Salvation and what it actually is for JW's, Mormons, SDA
ohh ok good night
I did not say an atheist was my breathren in Christ, please re-read and you will see said I love them the same as I would love a breathren in Christ with no distinction. It's part of unconditional love. While our views may not be the same I don't judge one for having a contrasting view. Also I'm not "getting on JW's", if you watch the videos you will see they are not anything like that. They carry a respectful demeanor and don't criticize them in any way. Thanks for asking me though and I hope I clarified it enough for you. Merry Christmas
@ J. Hofer
Not trying to achieve anything. Just offering the Gospel message of Salvation through Christ to anyone who may want to take comfort in it. I'm not any essential part of it as it's between them and Jesus. Remembering back to my exit from the Watchtower I went through a period of confusion and know how hard it is to make the transition to putting faith rightfully but solely in Christ. It can be daunting to know it's a one on one relationship when one has been conditioned to a group think mentality.
To answer your second question I again reiterate that I'm not trying to mislead anyone into anything. Only talking about the Gospel and my Savior Christ. No religion or any man can give salvation as Christ is the only mediator between God and man. Again one must watch the videos before judging as I assure they are far from anything misleading or devious in nature. All emphasis is on Christ and all support is from scripture in context. Thank you for asking I hope I answered your questions. Merry Christmas
No didn't have a chance to call been so busy last few weeks. Been thinking about you though and praying that your wife may be helped. Sometimes it takes time but with love and perseverence in prayer Christ can open her eyes. Have a good Christmas my friend.
Thank you. God bless and have a good Christmas.
Oh well heck we were brethren for a few seconds anyway. Once you say you have it right and a JW LDS SDA or another religion has it wrong then that is a judgement, accept it, you can not and do not have to like certain things.
Sharing one's viewpoint is fine. I have problems when it is imposed on anyone. Otherwise, we just replace the JWs for another cult.
Personally, I believe that if more people were literate in basic Bible stories, even without any faith element attached, the Witnesses would have major recruitment problems.
I mean no disrespect in saying an atheist would not be a breathren of Christ. Since atheism denies belief that Christ is what he claimed would it not kinda self defeat the thought of being his breathren (which by the way is okay, it is ones choice and their entitled to it) I think thats self explanatory. As for judging Christians don't personally judge anyone, all we do is present the Gospel and it's up to the recipient to do whatever they please. We don't know if they are wrong or right or how God would judge them. We don't know how God would judge anyones heart. Each one will stand before Christ on his own. As for any conviction that is upto God's Holy Spirit, it will convict one to do what is correct. No amount of judging or prodding by men would create a satisfactory spiritual heart. Anyone who was familar with the Watchtowers methods will know this doesn't work.
Anyways this is getting off topic and would like to focus back on the original intent. Thanks though for asking it's been very good and those are legitimate questions to have that are worth asking. Perhaps another thread would be better to start for more discussion.
@Band on the Run
Couldn't agree with you more. Controlling ones view or imposing doctrine on them is dangerous and leads to the devestation we have all witnessed at the hand of such regimes. Many fall prey to these organizations due to lack of biblical knowledge. Good hearted people searching for God but lacking in basic Christian theology. Even if they just had the basic shell of knowledge it would better equip them to ward off such ones.
Thank you your point was well made.
Ticker, I was just having fun with this topic. Salvation to an atheist is simply irrelevant sort of like caring if the moon is made of bleu cheese.
learning about Salvation
Salvation from what?
It's okay, it's good to ask questions, in fact I'd encourage it as not enough people question but rather swallow views presented without first determining the evidence to prove it so. That's why some are at this very site after having bought into a fabricated vision based upon an organizations dogma. Also considering that many religous people are quick to judge or condemn I can understand the gut response that some have or even why many have been turned off from God. Sometimes Religion can be God's worst enemy and shoot itself in the foot. Instead of realizing that "Jesus is my Savior not my Religion" many so called Christians condemn their fellow people because they don't go to Church or a certain brand or denomination.
They can also get pre-occupied with pettiness on morally neutral issues such as wearing blue jeans and sandals or wearing a suit and tie to a Sunday sermon. Or possibly they don't like live guitars and drums in worship but like ritualistic pre-recorded music. Maybe they think beards are wrong in God's eyes, long hair is bad, piercings are wrong, the list can go on forever... In reality none of these things matter as they are all morally neutral. It's not the clothing, guitar, or facial hair that is bad or good. Rather it is how those things are used.
You can use a guitar to play songs of praise or you can use it to rave hatred but the instrument itself is morally neutral in God's eyes. If you want to wear jeans to Sunday service then praise God, if you want to wear a suit then praise God, if you want to worship at home a small group of friends with no Church affiliation then praise God. Jesus didn't go to seek out the self rightous hypocrites but rather to call the weak and sick. He dwelt with sinners and had compassion for these ones as they had hearts that were healable and not hardened like the pharisees.
The way the Pharisee's enforced the Jewish and Oral Law's with a lack of compassion is what turned the people off to God back in ancient Israel. Jesus came to set the example and in doing so exposed them as hypocrites binding heavy loads but unwilling to lift a finger to move them. Matthew 23:4 This very thing same thing today is turning people off to religion. All the pettiness and laws they try to enforce on morally neutral things bind up heavy loads and they fail to show compassion.
Not to scare anyone as most Churches don't judge anyone over these things but all people are imperfect none the less. I find these types of problems fester much more in the organized legalistic law based religions Such as Jehovah's Witness and Mormon denominations for two examples. Church can be a great thing for encouragement or to build a social network of friends but men will always disapoint and as with anything politics can arise. Still if you keep in mind that no religion or church can bring salvation and that it is only found through a one on one with Christ you can navigate quite well and really enjoy fine fellowship with fellow Christians.
The biased picture that the Watchtower depicts of born again Christians is as false as their failed prophecy. I found most Christians to be very sincere in their faith and it was routed in Christ not an organization, pastor, governing body, etc.. Also the love in many churches is genuine and they don't ex communicate ones but rather seek to lovingly support any having trouble with sin no matter what it is. Why would you cut off a sick one needing help by disfellowshipping them, do not the sick need a physician? - Luke 5:31 They offer various care groups, youth ministry that is engaging with activities such as catching a movie in the theatre or camping as a group, charitable acts to help the less fortunate no matter who they are, and all this is open to anyone. You don't have to have a certain track record or reach a status quo. We all sin and to think we are more deserving then another just because we think we sin less is a great misconception. Sin to God is equal as well and no sin outweighs another. To feel we can work our salvation is a great error. Ephesians 2:9 Romans 11:6 Without grace we would never have a chance to gain reconciliation with God in all his perfect holiness.
So yes in my long winded answer which I hope you forgive me for , I can understand your position on God and I apologize for the hurt religion has caused you and others, in my heart I know Jesus would never have wished that upon anyone. I feel he would have used the same words on many of the religous leaders today as he did on the pharisees.
@ Interested One
Salvation for the whole world from death due to inherited sin. Romans 5:12,21 John 3:16 Isaiah 46:13 Salvation is not a term used often if at all by the Watchtower. They do not promote the idea of salvation through Christ by Grace for obvious confliction with their works based score card redemption. In fact they vehemently attack and slander God's gift of Grace at every given opportunity. One of their key components is this is taking James chapter 2 out of context. When you put it in proper context their arguments becomes very thin and falls apart. Thus like Band on the Run commented, it is so useful for ones to have some working knowledge of the bible to thwart such deceptions.
Tinker, you start with suppositions about God and Truth and then segregate the validity of religions that claim to follow the Bible. To you 'God' is your Christian God and Truth is your reading of the Bible and your personal experience with your faith and spirituality. Fine for you but that's just your choice and observation. 'Salvation' in the New Testament is just a concept developed 2000 years ago by a few people who started a new religion by picking and choosing ideas from other religions. (There is a more sinister approach to the NT as a Roman invention to make the populace docile, but that's for a different thread).
We all have our prejudices and you show yours- 'The way the Pharisees enforced the Jewish and Oral Laws with a lack of compassion' this is pure crap that you learned by reading the prejudiced and anti-semetic statements in the Gospels, you do not know what a Jew or Pharisee really thought or practiced.