by Band on the Run 93 Replies latest jw friends
No, that means knowning while not intervening. The outcome of the choice was foreseen, but the choice was freely made.
It means there is no choice. If God knows the future and the outcome must be EXACTLY what he sees, then, before I was born, he knows what I will have for lunch on Thursday and I have zero choice in the matter. I merely have the illusion of choice.
Sorry, a pre-determined future is 100% incompatible with actual choice. It is simply a logical impossibility.
I don't want to turn this into the ususal melee (peace to you all!) and we all know it will, so I will restrain my participation to this one comment:
if you think there can be free will and god knows the future, you fail at logical and critical thinking
This is true. The problem is that those who don't know God, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... because they don't know His Son... and Word... don't realize that He isn't telling the future. He is telling the past. We only THINK it's the future... because it hasn't occurred within OUR lives, as we know it... yet:
"Is there a thing of which it is said, 'See, this is new'"? It has been already, in the ages before us. ... That which is was long ago, and that which is to be has already been; and God brings back again that which is past." Ecclesiastes 1:10; 3:15
We think we know. The only Ones who know are the Ones who were there, which ones are far, far... far... ahead of us [in time], not behind us. That they are ahead of us (in time)... and communicate (back) with us so that WE can know what lies ahead of US... is... so elementary. It is what any of us would do for those we love: send our words BACK (NOT forward), so as to help those WE love avoid "calamity." Indeed, it was what the "Rich Man" wanted to do!
Just as we cannot go back and change anything, however, neither can the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. NOT because He isn't literally able to; but because He isn't MORALLY able to. The law... of LOVE... prevents it. Because the consequences would be devastating to mankind, which He loves. To ALL life, actually, in both the physical AND the spiritual world. Because to go BACK... would require a reversal of the energy that is moving FORWARD.
JAH's "chariot" is not subject to the "laws" of time... as we know such... but "moves" outside of time (as WE know it).
The only thing He can do... is try to guide us. And He has provided One...indeed a Light... to help us "see". If we want it. If so, that One is at our disposal. If we don't... then our journey through the "darkness" is one we have to take on our own. And it is our free will to do so... as well as how we do so.
A slave of Christ,
SA
Religionists always compare God to a Father.
Going from that thought:
Suppose a couple find out through blood tests that they each carry the gene for a terrible genetic disease that there will be an almost 100% chance that it will be transmitted to any children they have.
How would the average person view that couple who, knowing that, would then CHOOSE to have children anyways?
Just a thought.
I realize you didn't address me specifically, dear Palm (peace to you!), so please excuse if you don't wish me to respond. But... can you please define "average person"? I ask this because often times there is a faction within the western world that considers itself to be the only gauge of "average." I believe, however, that there are both cultures where the "average person" would frown upon a couple who, although knowing this predisposition, would choose NOT to have children (perhaps because, to them, be a lack of faith in God), as well as some cultures that would frown upon a couple that chose to have children (considering it immoral).
So, please tell us which "average" person(s) are you specifically referring to... and thank you for clarifying that.
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
. He is telling the past. We only THINK it's the future... because it hasn't occurred within OUR lives, as we know it... yet:
Also imcompatible with the idea of free will. There is no scenario is which God could know our future without error that allows for free will.
You're entitled to (choose as to) your opinion, of course, because as free will allows for that (you could have chosen a different opinion - the world would not have come to an end). But sure, there is a scenario; a couple/few actually, including simply allowing you to choose the outcome of your future, with no interference as to that choice from Him. As to other scenarios, I don't think you would understand them. And so, I'm of the mind that... now, how did you put it, "there is little point in having a discussion with someone who refuses to get it, can't get it..."
I'm not ready to say you refuse, though.
A slave of Christ,
SA
As to other scenarios, I don't think you would understand them. And so, I'm of the mind that... now, how did you put it, "there is little point in having a discussion with someone who refuses to get it, can't get it..."
If you have some scenarios, please post them.
As to your quote of me, it stands. If you are intent on misusing words, misrepresenting known science and intentionally ofbuscating your posts so they can mean anything you want later, then there indeed is little point in trying to have a discussion.
If you have some scenarios, please post them.
Nope, no more pearls for you. You don't like 'em anyway, so why waste 'em? Maybe I'll post them on another site. Oh, but then you'd have to take a look there... and well, we can't have you doing that can we?
As to your quote of me, it stands. If you are intent on misusing words, misrepresenting known science and intentionally ofbuscating your posts so they can mean anything you want later, then there indeed is little point in trying to have a discussion.
Then why, PRAY TELL, if you truly believe that, do you keep trying to HAVE one? If you have (rightly) concluded that I don't want to have one... why don't you listen to even what you tell yourself? And please don't tell me that it's because "this is a discussion board." A LOT is posted on this board that does not equate to "discussion." Even so, YOU don't want to discuss - you just want to live out your dream of [finally] proving someone who believes in God [who you fear might know something you don't] wrong. Because, well, we can't have that, can we... something that you DON'T know (about). Surely, if there WAS a God He would have revealed Himself to YOU. Since He hasn't, then of course He does not exist.
Yet, you can't seem to tear yourself away... and stop asking as to, about, and after Him. Why, again pray tell... would an intelligent person keep pursuing information... or discussion... about something or someone they claim they don't believe exists? To show that He doesn't? How's that working for you?
Seriously - do you really think you're the first one who's tried to disprove the existence of God... or that you'll be the last?
Get a grip.
A slave of Christ,
SA, who doesn't care... truly... who or what you think she thinks she is...
As I expected, claim an ability or knowledge and run away when asked to prove it.
Have a pleasant evening.
Dang... and I [almost] believed you. But here you are... attempting to "engage" (yeah, your rhetoric doesn't fool ME). You DO understand the meaning of the word "refuse," right? Right?
You have yourself a merry one, too.
A slave of Christ,
SA
