Did Ray Franz Go On The "Talk Show", "Radio Show", "Church Circuit" To Bash WTS?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Hi Mouthy and friends!

    @mouthy, how old were you and what made you realize what we were following was not "the truth"? Did you experience evil from "appointed men of God", were you reading God's Word and had problems reconciling the Bible and the twisted teachings from Bethel. What started to crack your belief in a way of life, you knew for a good portion of your life? You have paid by making a moral stand with your children not talking to you? My focus, emphasis is to bring awareness to a set of people wh are "good people who left for moral reasons", not the exJWs who leave and bash for doing wrong things Biblically speaking.

    ExJWs are unfairly labled "aposates" instead of "dissidents" or "whistle-blowers" who desire change and cleaning up doctrine back to our roots of early Christian thinking. It's hard for me to take anyone serious who preaches "I am looking for Truth so I am leaving the Organization on a moral basis" when I know they are a thief (stealing the friends money from bank accounts, forgery), abusive to their spouse (beating, cheating, willfully-non supporting") or some other bad person who practices wickedness but claims "I am leaving to draw close to God!". Bad people "apostates who are wicked" bring about reproach against our JWN Community, if we can bring forward the merits of men like Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap and you yourself, we can sting them where it hurts!

    Thank you for quickly replying to my post, if you have read many of my "OP"s or comments to various "threads" I am clear about this subject, that "what I have read shows Ray Franz never spoke ill of his fellow Jehovah Witnesses or bashed the "Watchtower". In fact he defend's the various men who treated him wickedly, doingthe exact opposite they (Governing Body and their propaganda machine) are known to have done (Rutherford and Laywer Miles, Miller or Moyle Case).

    I want to pick the brains of members of JWN who have the long-time life experiences, members like o"Mouthy", "Blondie", "Terry", "Dog-Patch", "James Wood" because we are loosing contact with people who know the truth about Brother and Sister Franz, Brother and Sister Dunlap (thanks to James Wood, I know a little history about Brother Dunlap, I wish I could have met these brave men.). JWN has a community where people can bring different ideas of any topic, a forum "lurkers" and "newbies" can discover the truth about courageous men who lived strong morals lives after they left the Organization.

    Mouthy, we have to start threads in this manner to combat the lies that abound in "JW-Land", that "Ray Franz was a bitter apostate who went mental!" "Ray Franz ran off from his wife, and she forgave him(A bethelite told me this Whooper!). As I study more information about the "Franz Couple", Ray get's angry when ex-Jehovah Witnesses are lying pubically, either on print or Tv and church-tour information gatherings. My heart has grown attached to a man I never met, and I enjoy reading the writings brother Franz, he seems like a good man!

    Please be patient with me as I collect information to write about Brother Franz, Cynthia, Brother Dunlap and his wife. I wish we had friends who knew the Spanish Couple the Organization kicked out for no good reason! Thank you brothers and sisters for helping me create this thread for posterity, and my children too.

    @blondie, did you ever write for the Organization (Watchtower or Awake magazines), I love your writing skills and humor with my Sunday study edition you provide on JWN.

  • mouthy

    I was a baptized JW .Over 25 years believed it was the truth.

    There was two things they believed BEFORE I was baptised & I told the elders ,that I couldnt believe

    1. was Jesus did not have a beard ( as they preached) 2 . that Jesus came INVISABLY in 1914,( as they preach )
    But after I had been studying with them for two years It came out in the Watchtower Jesus DID have a beard.
    So I thought "They do tell the truth when they find it out" So I got baptised thinking they will get 1914 right
    But one day after making 10 people Jehovahs Witnesses ( after 25 years of faithful service. ) I mentioned to two
    elders I still didnt believe that Jesus came invisably in 1914. They all said You must believe that it is right from Jah!
    After discussing it with them more they said I could NOT go out in service until they taught me it. I said NO way!
    I explained that if I said I have a bird on my shoulder they couldnt see it. But it was there they would say I was
    nuts" Well they df me.... I wanted to kill myself & when I said to them as they df me,What would you do if I killed myself
    One of them shrugged his shoulders.
    How wicked of them to tell you Cynthia left Ray!!!! Talk about lies. I met Ray, Ed Dunlop, & many many others they all
    were like me LOVED the Witnesses but couldnt preach lies.
    I had a call from Dan Hall the other day. Witness for many many years, He left also because of false teachings

    He has just found out his SON!!!! He was an ELDER( the SON)has died noone told him about it for weeks.Is that love.?

  • mouthy

    Love???? NO it isnt.... Because the son was doing as my daughter & many others are doing
    listening to false prohets/The old men at Brooklyn.

    After Ray died.... I think many began to think & read HIS book & they also came out of the cult.

    I Hope you realize Ray was a faithful Christian

  • suavojr

    Wow MOUTHY you have gone through alot. My respects to you!

    After I read Ray's book and listened to Ed's audio commentary, I could sense how honest and lovers of truth these men were. Thanks for confirming my thoughts

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Hi "Mouthy", the lie was that "Ray left Cynthia for another woman, and she took him back after his sordid affair". When it comes to making up lies about "exJWs, there is no moral obligation to tell the truth. I once asked to borrow "The Commentary on the Letter of James", one old Jehovah Witness couple said "You know who wrote that don't you?", "yeah, I know it was Ray Franz" like this would shock me. The next additional information they provided was a bold-faced lie "You know he went insane don't you? He was going to give a talk at one of the "Big Conventions" and the Governing Body had put security-detail around him, a phone call from "the Top came and" and it was decided to pull his part from him and send him back to Bethel, because he was too much of a "wild card". This took place in the "South United States" the rumor's go.

    Yes, Jehovah's loyal Witnesses have no problem lying about Ex-JWs, is it any wonder they can gossip and cause hurt to anyone in their Kingdom Halls they preceive as a threat, from the weak-ones, to the "over-zealous free speaking" elders. I know things were getting a bit paranoid before I walked away from the Kingdom Hall, giving them back all that belonged to them. I am at a point I need to learn more so I don't get tricked again, how did you know you found Jesus Christ and the "Christian Freedom" that comes with that? Ed Dunlop mentioned the Witnesses "live in a world, where those with weak conscienes are offended easily and make the rules for the friend with strong consciences!

    The Newspaper article as splendid, thank you again Blondie!

  • mouthy

    How did I find Christ???? No it is more like Christ found ME!a ;lost sheep !!!!

    After I was kicked out of the WT I wanted to kill myself ,I met a couple of JWs (ex) who were going to an
    EX Convention in Pennsylvania...I live in Canada. They took me with them ( I still believed it was the truth)
    so I thought I could convince all those exjw to come back to the truth...But When I got there it was called
    "WITNESSES NOW FOR JESUS" started by Bill Cetner & Joan his wife( ex bethelites)
    Well there were about 300 of them there & their testimonies were so moving I knew they were telling the
    truth about what they had gone through as a witness because much the same had happened to me...
    That is when Jesus came into MY life!!!! I became born again after all those years serving the Watchtower
    I learned I didnt have to work anymore HE> Jesus had done it all for just little old ME!!!!!I am now free of
    the "LIE" I have the ONLY WAY! TRUTH! LIFE! thereis. And my life is free from feeling I am not doing enough
    to earn my way for the Paradise I had worked for all those years all those beatings I took,was for NOTHING!
    WHo do we think we are....???? We can work for ever & never know HIM!!!!! HE KNOWS ME NOW!!!!!
    THANK GOD!!!!!!!!

  • james_woods
    I once asked to borrow "The Commentary on the Letter of James", one old Jehovah Witness couple said "You know who wrote that don't you?", "yeah, I know it was Ray Franz" like this would shock me.

    Actually, it was Ed Dunlap who wrote the Commentary on James.

  • Apognophos

    I have nothing to add except to say that this is all interesting to me and I'm glad there are ones here who have history and personal knowledge of the facts, going back decades. As a lifelong Witness, I thought I knew all the teachings, but what I didn't know was what used to be taught before I was around. I am still learning new things about "old light" (I just recently saw those old illustrations of a beardless Jesus for the first time!). Until this past year, I was unwilling to read any apostate material because I was convinced it was slanderous and insidious lies. I still have not read anything beyond a few web sites, although it's been enough to help me see the light about the organization. Still, I am thinking I should get Ray Franz's book, just so I can know more of the facts and really make things hit home for me.

  • cofty

    Mouthy - You know I understand things differently from you but I just want to thank you for sharing your story. I have never read it before.

  • cantleave


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