Did Ray Franz Go On The "Talk Show", "Radio Show", "Church Circuit" To Bash WTS?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Dogpatch

    Mouthy, you MUST join my new cult. We offer free scones with fresh butter! :-))

    Ray was intertwined so long with the "powers that be" that he struggled with issues like Luther. He was not really "anti-Watchtower" or even anti-organization, any more than Martin Luther was really anti-Catholic.

    This was demonstrated by his extreme distaste for orthodoxy to his death. I'm not sure he "trusted the brothers", like most typical Bethel elders and overseers. Just more conservative and loving and merciful.

    I don't think he ever actually considered any of typical "Christendom" to really be part of the body of Christ.

    It is hard to fully escape the legalism of the church you belong to, even when you defect.

    Kinda reminds me of Martin Luther... encouraging dissent in a narrow range but vilifying full Christian freedom and acts of rebellion against a corrupt leadership.

    Just my 2 rubles.



  • mouthy

    No dogpatch!!!! cant join your lot, even for the free scones.You see I have to sit on the " throne"
    all day.... everything I eat goes right through me...My exJW friend is coming over one day to CROWN me

    Thanks for all your love folks I feel it Happy Holidays to you ALL!!!!!!!!

  • blondie


    I do believe this illustrates Ray's concept of organization. He told me once that as religious groups grow and get bigger, they lose the true thinking of Christ and actions. I could tell how much Charles Davis and his book A Question of Conscience affected Ray and why he never joined a church or formed an organization. (bold is mine)

    For many it seems a difficult thing to achieve a sense of personal relationship with God and Christ, one not dependent on some subsidiary relationship with an institution. Some almost seem to fear any one-on-one relationship with their Creator and his Son.

    Whatever its apparent benefits, organizational membership can never equal the beauty and strengthening comfort that such personal relationship brings. Christ likens himself to a shepherd who does not look upon his sheep simply as an anonymous conglomerate group, but one who "calls his own sheep by name". (John 10:3)

    Following the death of Christ, a process of institutionalization set in among his professed followers. The personal nature of one's relationship with God and his Son was adversely affected, diminished.

    The book it is based on was written by Charles Davis who left the Catholic orgaization.

    Charles Davis was for many years a priest and prominent theologian (and editor of the British journal The Clergy Review) in the largest of the institutions that developed, the Roman Catholic Church. Explaining the reason for his decision to withdraw from his lifelong affiliation with that institution in the late 1960s, he wrote in his book A Question of Conscience : I remain a Christian, but I have come to see that the Church as it exists and works at present is an obstacle in the lives of the committed Christians I know and admire. It is not the source of the values they cherish and promote. On the contrary, they live and work in constant tension and opposition to it. Many can remain Roman Catholics only because they live their Christian lives on the fringe of the institutional Church and largely ignore it. I respect their position. In the present confused period people will work out their Christian commitment in different ways. But their solution was not open to me; in my position I was too involved. I had to ask bluntly whether I still believed in the Roman Catholic Church as an institution. I found that the answer was no. [Underlining ours] (continues)

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Thank you everybody for posting on this thread, the truth is Ray Franz is not the Ogre the Watchtower has insinuated but was a good man fighting for more Truth!

    I am glad we can let this thread go into the archieves with full agreement (Not a 2/3s majority) "Ray Franz loved his brothers and sisters and never lied about the Watchtower Organization. We should include Ed Dunlap into this motion, he was another man of God and Jesus Christ who loved, not spread lies the way their tormentors did! God Bless Everyone helping with this thread, thank you a billion!

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