If all of our sins are forgiven, what is GOD going to judge us for when we die?

by jam 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • cobaltcupcake

    My father raped me when I was 11, and then dragged us into JWs the year after. He spent the next 24 years verbally abusing me at every turn, shoving me into a bad marriage when I was 18. He was a respected and honored elder in the congregation.

    He never apologized to me, asked me for forgiveness, offered to help pay for the therapy or drugs I needed to keep from killing myself, and then he died a "faithful" JW, leaving me behind to deal with the aftermath by myself.

    I'd like to know how justice is served if he gets resurrected and never faces judgment or discipline for his sins.


    This is all very confusing to a gladiator. I understood that according to the bible the penalty for sin is death. So once someone has died they have paid for their sin. Presumable all that God creates is perfect, so I fail to see how God could then give that person life, only to judge them and kill them. Whether all this resurrecting and slaughtering happens on earth or in an invisible world seems to vary from Christian to Christian.

    Nos morituri te salutamu

    W e who are about to die salute you

  • PSacramento

    Perhaps John 5 can help with this:

    24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

    Two Resurrections

    25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

  • PSacramento

    I think that issue may be redemption and repentance.

    When a person accepts Christ they are to repent and be redeemed but what does that mean?

    Somethink that simply means saying you are sorry and all is forgiven but Idon't think it works that way.

    To repent we must accept that we have wronged others, that we have sinned and with the, the full understanding of those wrongings.

    A person that repents takes upon themselves the full weight and pain of ALL those theyt have wronged, they come face-to-face with their sins AND the consequences there of.

    Think Hitler coming to full awareness and full consciousness of ALL He did was was responsible for, the sheer magnitude of those horrors AND confronting them with FULL KNOWLEDGE of HOW wrong they were and how much pain and suffering they caused.

    THAT is repentance, that is carry the cross as Christ did, to carry the full weight, burden, pain and sorrow of all the sins we have done, all those we have wronged.

    Only by doing that are we redeemed.

    So, it's not a case of simply saying "forgive" me to God and all is OK because for those that come to that place, when confronted with the full weight of sin, not many go that final step.

  • snare&racket

    exactly !

    If "the wages of sin are death" .... then what fudgment will people be ressurected to ?

    None of it adds up... especially when we are naturally inclined to sin

    Its all bull socks !

  • jgnat

    The number of gems on your crown.

  • AGuest
    Another question. Christi-SCAM-ity is supposed to be based on Jesus' sacrifice. This is supposed to be "a perfect, complete sacrifice, to which nothing ever need be added". Then why was sacrifice needed before this "complete" sacrifice? Why was it necessary to sacrifice to foreshadow the "complete" sacrifice, except if Jehovah wants mankind to live under hardship?

    Supposed to be, yes, dear WTW (peace to you!), which is why your term is appropriate. But you've answered your own questions: "Shiloh" had not come, yet. So, provision had to be made for the atonement for sin BEFORE and up to his arrival. But those sacrifices were insufficient: they only covered one sin at a time, and so had to be repeated... over and over and over. When Christ gave HIS, he did so once, for ALL men (who CHOOSE to take advantage of the BENEFIT of it)... for ALL time. Exercise faith in HIS blood, and you're "covered." Note, though, one's faith must be EXERCISED - it is not stagnant, benign, or blind.

    And why is ongoing sacrifice, as in "a self-sacrificing spirit" needed to add to the "perfect, complete sacrifice, to which nothing ever need be added"?

    I'm sorry - I don't know what you mean, here. Can you clarify, please? Thank you!

    AGuest; Lets see if I got this right. You said, those who have no judgment, no condemnation because his blood covers their sins (I thought his blood covered everyone sins) and who are they, people before and those in Jesus day.

    His blood covers everyone's sins... who put FAITH in him and that covering, dear jam (peace to you!). If they DON'T... then they have no "covering" for their sins. Which is HOW they are judged: their sins remain, uncovered. And the wage/price/cost of sin... is death. Of the body AND the spirit. And it includes those who lived before Christ's day in the flesh, during... and after. He went and preached to the spirits of those who died in Noah's day... many since Noah's day, but before he came put faith in him... were waiting for him. Those who were alive when he arrived who put faith in him... and those who've done so since he ascended.

    Then others are judge on their deeds BUT death is the price of sin.


    When you die, you don,t pay for your sins (excuse me) such that they are wiped out.

    Nope. That is a WTBTS lie. YOUR blood doesn't have any value, dear one - it CAN'T pay for, so as to wipe out, your sins. When you die, you paid the PRICE of sin (the consequence), yes, but you didn't pay enough TO BRING YOU BACK TO LIFE. But, praise JAH... another paid that price FOR you... if you want to take advantage of that. He "REpurchased", "REdeemed", "BOUGHT" you. If you choose to belong to him as a result, for doing so... then you can receive life from HIM. If not, you don't.

    You remain dead, because your life CAN not buy you backlife. Your sin, you pay with your life, done.

    For the most part, yes. You will be brought back, briefly, to stand before the Judgment. But that is not necessarily being brought back to LIFE. For some it is, for some it is not ("There will be a resurrection... of the righteous AND the unrighteous. The righteous to life; the unrighteous to judgement.")

    However, you still must be judged so as too be determined to be a sinner. And so the (second )resurrection...and judgment.


    Stop here!!


    Lets say tomorrow I die when I wake up and I am in Paradise with a clean slate, but the book of sinners (the record that have been kept since the begainning of mankind) will be open and every sin I have comitted will be revealed.

    But you're NOT with a clean slate, dear one; justice has not yet been served. Your death didn't wipe out your sin(s) - your death simply was the price... CONSEQUENCE... for your sin(s). You still have to account for them; those you sinned against (God and Christ) can still exact vengeance.

    Those names written in the Lamb,s book get a free pass.

    Yep. HIS blood, which CAN atone for sin... because it is perfect (unlike yours and mine)... can "wash", "blot out"... "cover" the sin(s) of those who names are written in his Book (the Lamb's Book of Life). Yes.

    It would be very difficult to have your name in the Lamb,s book, if you are not of the tribe of Judah, Israel or having Abraham,s blood in you.

    NOT TRUE, dear one! It is to Abraham's seed first, yes... but God "turned His attention to the NATIONS... to take out of THEM a people for His name!" So, due to Israel's "stumbling"... salvation has been offered to the nations, to those NOT of Abraham's seed/blood! THAT... is the GOOD news of the kingdom! That you don't HAVE to be of Abraham's seed... OR Israel, by blood!

    So what I am asking you, death in your opinion does not clear you of all your past sins?

    It is not my opinion, dear one - it is the truth.

    When you wake up in Paradise are you still a sinner?

    You don't wake up in Paradise, dear one... unless you're a part of the FIRST resurrection, the one that takes place when Christ arrives (immediately after the great tribulation). If you are not a part of that one, then you take part in the SECOND resurrection, the "general" resurrection... which takes place more than 1,000 years AFTER Christ returns: after the "separating" of the "sheep" from the "goats," THEN the loosing of Satan from the abyss (which takes place at the beginning of the, 1000 years)... after he misleads Gog and Magog and these come against "Paradise," the Holy City of NEW Jerusalen (which is "heaven/Paradise" ON earth!)... AFTER "Har-Mageddon", God's War (where they are destroyed by fire that comes down from HIM)... and AFTER he (Satan) is sent to destruction in the Lake of Fire (along with the wild beast and false prophet).

    It is those who take part in that resurrection, the second one, that some are allowed to enter into "paradise"... the garden IN the "City". These are [the righteous who are] resurrected "to LIFE" Those who take part in that event... but are NOT allowed entry [the unrighteous]... are resurrected to judgment... and so condemnation... and thus, the second death... in the Lake of Fire. Where is killed the body... AND (destroyed) the spirit.

    One other thought, how many people will not change their sinful ways when they realize they are in paradise and they will be judged.

    Notwithstanding that they won't wake up IN paradise (but may wake up to the opportunity to be in the "City"), this is the reason that some ARE destroyed (and certainly Gog): they WOULDN'T/WON'T change their ways. Since "no more harm will be done in ALL [of God's] Holy Mountain, Zion, the "mound" on which the Holy "City", New Jerusalem SITS... they will have to go. I would say "unfortunately," but IS it?

    If I wake up in paradise and my pass sins (never kill anyone) was forgiven, why would I sin again.

    Your sins are forgiven only if your name is written in the Lamb's book. NOT because you died. HIS blood covers them - not yours. Your's... can't. It doesn't have any "redeeming" qualities so as TO cover your sins. None of our blood can cover the sins of ANYONE; ourselves or anyone else. Only One's blood can to that.

    Which is why he came to GIVE it: on behalf of ANYONE who wants to take advantage of that GIFT. Which is why the WTBTS is more reprehensible than her sisters, the other "women" who are "daughters" of Babylon the Great, "the Mother of the Harlots". They literally negate the words of that One that serve to open up the kingdom of the heavens to ALL:

    "I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    "Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

    " JAHESHUA said to them, ' Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

    And he showed them HOW they could do that. He told them (and us):

    "Take, eat, this means my body. Take, drink, this means my blood."

    Yet, the WTBTS taught you... as they were supposed to... that you SHOULDN'T do this! Why were they supposed to teach you this? Because their purpose, as false prophets and false christs is to mislead, IF POSSIBLE... EVEN the chosen ones. To "shut UP the kingdom of the heavens before men." Because THEY (the leaders) are not going in! So, they don't allow others to go in, either! That is the reason they EXIST - they are merely hired men who "do not care for the sheep", but "abandon the sheep to wolved... who snatch and scatter the sheep." Like ALL of the Harlot's "daughters" allow! Which is why the blood of the Prophets are found IN her!

    But you don't have to continue to be misled by their false teachings, dear jam. You CAN to the One they have spent their entire existence trying to obscure from you. The One that they cover over with their "Jehovah." The One to Whom we were told to look to, listen to, follow... and obey: the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is the Son, Christ, King, and appointed Leader for the Household of God, TRUE Israel... and those who go with that House.

    I hope this helps, truly.

    Again, peace to you, both!

    A slave of Christ,


  • cofty
    only blood atones for sin - Shelby

    The wrath of god propitiated by the sight of a blood sacrifice - what a horrible pagan notion.

    You really know how to pick and choose those proof texts don't you Shelby?

    cobaltcupcake's experience demonstrates how immoral the concept of vicarious punishment ought to appear to all responsible people.

  • AGuest
    I'd like to know how justice is served if he gets resurrected and never faces judgment or discipline for his sins.

    If he didn't confess his sin to YOU, dear CC (peace to you!), as well as to God through Christ... NOR asked YOUR forgiveness, as well as theirs... then even if he partook of Christ's flesh and blood (symbolized by the bread and wine), he would have been "eating and drinking unworthily" and thus eating and drinking "judgment as to himself." He doesn't have to HAVE your forgiveness, but only God's and Christ's. He did have to give you the opportunity to OFFER it to him, though... by confessing his error and ASKING you for it.

    That he failed to do that because he either didn't or refused to acknowledge his error showed that he was not repentant. If he failed to do it because he could not bring himself to own up to it to YOU... OR God/Christ... then he was a coward. And cowards are placed OUTSIDE the "City." He didn't have to confess it to anyone ELSE, either (unless he was moved to do so, perhaps because he had hidden it from others who asked, or perhaps because he wanted to come into the light and hide nothing from ANYONE any longer, but that he didn't to YOU negates that, so...) - there was no one else who could have sat in judgment of him ("Let the one without sin cast the first stone").

    But he will have an accounting. He had it to you... and God, through Christ... when he was still alive. Unfortunately, he missed that opportunity. Now, he will have to make to God alone... later. EVERYONE has to account for their sins, dear one. Some will do so when they are alive (and in the way Christ directed - to go try and make peace with the one having something "against" them, THEN go offer up their gift at the altar)... and then accept the mercy of God by means of the atoning value of Christ's blood to COVER those sins.

    Others won't, though... and so will have to do so before "all creation." In the Judgment... when the "lights" come on... and they are caught "naked" (without any "covering").

    I wish, for both of your sakes (your peace of mind and HIS potential eternal life)... that he had done what he should have. All I can offer to YOU is that, perhaps for YOUR peace of mind, YOU can forgive him (even though he never asked it of you). Because holding onto trespasses "against" us can be as damaging, if not worse, than the actual trespass itself. Not always, of course, but often.

    I hope this helps, dear CC, and again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,


  • AGuest
    only blood atones for sin - Shelby

    Well, I mean, I didn't make the rule up:

    "... according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness." - Writer of letter to the Hebrews

    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makethatonement by reason of the life [in it]." - The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, as recorded in the Law [of Moses] So, I can't take credit for this truth, by NO means. But thank you for trying to attribute it to me. If I were a different person, I might be flattered. No need for flattery, though - I am just a servant. BTW - The Law existed long, long before "paganism"... which is a Latin (Roman) term to describe people of the land (or, as the Jews called them, "amhararets"). A slave of Christ, SA

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