by WinstonSmith 38 Replies latest members private
Winston:
It appears that you feel you can totally trust your sister with being confidential about your feelings, but can you trust her husband? Is it possible that she will share all of this with him and he will go into Uber-JDub mode and compromise you?
Perhaps it would be best to test the waters verbally first.
Doc
Your writing is excellent, your points well made. But don't send it. If your letter is shared with her husband or referenced you could have a big problem. Instead talk with her over the phone so you will hear how far you can go. So you can inject humor into the conversation as well as concern for her well being. There are two ways a balloon deflates...... it pops and ceases to be a balloon instantly or it slowly loses it's air. When my sister-in-law came to live with my wife and I she joined me on my daily walk and we talked. We were out of the truth by then but she was still in. She didn't realize she had doubts about the JW religion because it was all mixed together with a failing marriage. The same with the elders who were of no possible help and worse were not treating her with respect. First we talked about her marriage a bit and we were the first people to understand what she was going through.....And by seeing it through our eyes she began to realize there was fault a plenty to go around. Then we talked about what she felt about the whole JW thing.She allowed me to discuss some of the things you pointed out in your letter. "I hadn't realized that", was a frequent response.
In a person to person conversation you can exchange points of view easily and back off when necessary. It was important to get her to tell me about her doubts and concerns. Most JW's have them and in my experience most don't really believe in everything they think they do. It comes as an important part of the process to realize that. Other days we talked about her life up to then and what she wanted for the future. A lot of time JW's are disconnected from their future. So I guess I am suggesting that you talk with her as often as you can and encourage her to tell you what she is feeling. It is so good that your heart is open to her and your concerned. Her question "................................... do you think that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth?” Is loaded. She is not ready to hear TTATT it's essential that you take small steps and allow her to reach that point.
Winston,
It's potentially good news about your sis!
Obviously you must tread lightly. Too much too soon isn't good. On the other hand, you can't pretend you don't have doubts either. Here she is reaching out to you and because of the ridiculous rules of this cult you can't even be real!
How about if you tried something along the lines of this: "You know I've been having many of the same questions/doubts/concerns myself ..." But let her lead the discussion. Do more listening and less talking.
IMPORTANT: Let her know she is safe with you.
Keep us posted!
00DAD
PS - I did read your entire post, but not your proposed reply as I'm busy getting ready for work. Initial response: It's long!
You have written from your heart, and that is always good.
What I don't get is she and her husband are having domestic issues and all of a sudden it is about their appointments? This is a marriage in crisis. I see signs of abusiveness (whether physical or mental). When hubby is called on it, he goes on the offensive. He doesn't want the the power to shift in his marriage (right now he holds all the cards). I would like her to find her inner strength. If it means going on her own, so be it.
What I don't want to have happen is her to "endure", continue on with her routines, slowly eating her body and soul away.
My reply?
The male group of elders have a truth that they make up as they go along.
I like what you said. If you haven't sent it yet, I suggest something at the beginning. Even if you did send it, I suggest an additional thought be sent.
My suggestion is to basically discuss waiting on a decision from WTS.
They are talking about your sister's service "privileges" and not about helping her. Basically they are holding her pioneer and his MS status above their heads and saying "Start behaving or we will take that away." They may already take away his MS privilege, but they still want her to learn to keep quiet if he doesn't change. "Keep complaining about your husband and we will shame you in the congregation."
Do not expect them to have any interest in helping your sister, but just wanting her to get back in line. I suggest you tell her to stop thinking twice about pioneering and simply resign from the assignment. Then let them do whatever they do with him.
If a couple is struggling, they need more time together or at least more me-time. They can find that by reducing their service obligation. Plus, any question about TTATT suggests that full-time "preaching" it needs to be put on hold.
Just my thoughts. You did great. Nobody knows how far to go with their loved ones better than themself. All we can do is reflect from our own relationships.
I would commend her on starting to think critically about major decisions in her life. I would then share with her some videos on youtube that tell how "critical thinking" is a good thing and how it keeps us out of trouble in many ways. I think that having this as a lens to look through from this point forward in what she digest might not be a bad thing to do. It will let her know that her mind will try to convince her to lean toward her own biases. (sp?) It will show her how to "remove the carrot" when making these decisions.
On to the letter,..
I guess we all have different things that will push our buttons but only you know what she needs to hear.
For me, the part where you talk about the "I wonder how many people died" could be elaborated on a bit. I would talk about possibly someone that you might both know that has died due to following the current "Present Truth" regarding the view of taking blood and or it's components.
The canned answer when a topic like this comes up is "Jehovah wll remember them in the resurrection" or something like this. But if they are wrong regarding what parts if any parts of blood can be taken, could they be wrong about being in Jehovahs memory. What purpose would it serve to have someone die due to error, just to bring them back at a later time.
To me, the idea of losing my life and or the life of my kids, FOR EVER, was a large motivating factor in getting me to wake up.
Please keep us informed.
NJY
Winston:
I am probably the last person who ought to comment on this. I never was a dub, and I have two marriages and two divorces behind me. I am a 'worldly'. But I'll offer my thoughts in support for what they're worth.
First, along the lines of what jgnat said - I am old enough and experienced to know that the LAST thing a marriage in difficulties needs is a third party wading in with unwanted, useless and threatening comments. Especially drawn from misogynistic and illogical ideas. Third parties can be useful if they are non-partisan, non-judgemental and sufficiently professional as to inspire confidence in their capability and discretion. I leave it to others to comment as to whether JW Elders meet those criteria.
Second, 'read the bible or WT pubs and all will be well' is palliative, non-specific and practically useless advice. A cop-out, IMHO.
Third, you mention the NT entreaty to 'check and test' what's being taught - an entreaty with which I entirely agree. You may wish to draw a parallel between WTBTS who teach this (reluctantly) but will disfellowship you if you apply it and some branches of Islam which will kill you if you follow it.
Fourth, this is a purely personal view but I can't help wonder if the 'service to WTBTS' isn't one of the 'stumbling blocks' of this marriage. IME, successful marriage is hard enough when partners are entirely free to be themselves. What it must be like when a third party, especially a third party with the issues WTBTS displays, is involved I can only imagine.
I wish you (and yours) well.
As Joe Grundy said - I also think that Jgnat hits it right on the head:
You have written from your heart, and that is always good.
What I don't get is she and her husband are having domestic issues and all of a sudden it is about their appointments? This is a marriage in crisis. I see signs of abusiveness (whether physical or mental). When hubby is called on it, he goes on the offensive. He doesn't want the the power to shift in his marriage (right now he holds all the cards). I would like her to find her inner strength. If it means going on her own, so be it.
What I don't want to have happen is her to "endure", continue on with her routines, slowly eating her body and soul away.
This sounds to me like the perfect time to tell her the facts - like they really are - and not hold anything back.
It's a well-written letter (I saw one typo, btw -- "It totally agree with you"), but maybe too much for her right now. Of course you know your own sister and I don't know her at all. If she is of the right personality and right frame of mind, your letter could be very effective. But maybe a more personal, emotional response is what she needs right now, not a carefully-prepared list of talking points. She wants sympathy (rightly) for what she is going through. But even mentioning one or two of these points verbally on the phone could be more effective than putting them in an email. As Giordano said, you will be able to hear how far you can go if you keep it as a conversation instead of a letter.
